External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

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External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  96Mustang460cid on August 10th 2010, 10:25 am

I am considering purchasing an external oil pump. I want to buy a two stage pump with the oil pump and a scavenger (to pull the oil from my low mounted turbo). Can a wet sump oil pan be converted to properly work with an external oil pump? I've looked at Petersen's website and don't see any mention of conversion parts...

Thanks for the help!!!

Have a good day!
Michael
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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  dfree383 on August 10th 2010, 10:35 am

Yes a pan can be converted, you need to purchase the proper pick-up and weld it into to your pan.
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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  Lem Evans on August 10th 2010, 10:37 am




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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  dfree383 on August 10th 2010, 1:08 pm

The type I have looks more like a conventional pick-up than Lems, Mine has a small box with a down facing screen, but its installed with the same.
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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  richter69 on August 10th 2010, 1:15 pm

Have used both style with good results, my current pan uses the later, i do have an inline screen that is acessed from the outside.
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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  Lem Evans on August 10th 2010, 3:32 pm

richter69 wrote:Have used both style with good results, my current pan uses the later, i do have an inline screen that is acessed from the outside.
External screen is better.........inspection and cleaning....i.m.o.

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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  96Mustang460cid on August 10th 2010, 9:10 pm

Guys, thanks for you input! That's simple enough!

Side thought of the day:
I find that the further outside of the proverbial box I consider going, the more difficult it is to find information. You can google a H/C/I swap all day long. But, when you start talking about 'ultra high performance' (my term for it) such as dry sumps, external wet sumps, belt driven fuel pumps, drive mandrels, ect...the information isn't nearly as accessible... Sad. It almost seems like you have to know one of 'the' guys at the local track to see this stuff in action.

/Side thought of the day/

Have a good day!
Michael
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Screen for sure!

Post  Wheelie58 on August 12th 2010, 9:45 pm

Lem Evans wrote:
richter69 wrote:Have used both style with good results, my current pan uses the later, i do have an inline screen that is acessed from the outside.
External screen is better.........inspection and cleaning....i.m.o.

10-4 on that externally accessable screen. I am convinced that it will save a $$ oil pump from assorted trash. I found a little sliver from the end of a valve spring in one of mine.........
Keith
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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  Doug Rahn on August 13th 2010, 5:50 am

Wheelie58 wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:
richter69 wrote:Have used both style with good results, my current pan uses the later, i do have an inline screen that is acessed from the outside.
External screen is better.........inspection and cleaning....i.m.o.

10-4 on that externally accessable screen. I am convinced that it will save a $$ oil pump from assorted trash. I found a little sliver from the end of a valve spring in one of mine.........
Keith

X3 that!

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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  CDMBill on August 19th 2010, 12:26 pm

I'm running a front sump Canton T-style pan due to ground clearance and occasional open track use and I fabbed the pick up tube from 1" thin wall material and the orginal Canton welded screen box pickup. Because of the shape and location of the pan vs. the chassis elements I welded the #16 steel AN male end to the pick-up tube just outside the driver side front of the pan and then had to use a 120* hose end and about 12" of #16 hose to connect to the Peterson Wet/Vac pump. The stiffness of the #16 line at that length makes for just enough movement in the pump to properly tension the Gilmer belt.

The #16 size pick-up is required to offset the effect of the two stages of scavenge on the Wet/Vac external oil/vacuum pump. I use the Star Machine adjustable vacuum break limited to 12" so it doesn't dry out the wrist pins. I see 2-5" at normal street driving, highway speeds.

Because I run serpentine style belts to the alternator and PS pump, its a street car, the oil pump mandrel is out front of the pulley and the Peterson pump mount is spaced out accordingly. It sounds bad but everything is accessable and serviceable and low.

I'd talk to Peterson about their recommdation for a single scavenge stage deal for the turbo return oiling.

I like the idea of an external screen as I had a thrashed roller lifter and the junk from that required a full rebuild of the external pump. Does anybody have a recomendation? It would need to be #16 inline.

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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  Doug Rahn on August 19th 2010, 3:44 pm

Peterson has what you need. That's what is in my photo above. Hard to see but it's the red cylinder behind the K member.
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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  CP598 on August 28th 2010, 12:43 am

I too am seriously considering an external pump. Any and all recommendations are very much appreciated.
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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  Doug Rahn on August 29th 2010, 6:01 am

If either of you decide to go the external pump route, I have a spare new Peterson Wet/Vac pump I will sell.
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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  96Mustang460cid on August 29th 2010, 9:39 am

Doug Rahn wrote:If either of you decide to go the external pump route, I have a spare new Peterson Wet/Vac pump I will sell.

PM Sent Smile.

Have a good day!
Michael
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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  CP598 on August 29th 2010, 11:06 am

Doug Rahn wrote:If either of you decide to go the external pump route, I have a spare new Peterson Wet/Vac pump I will sell.

Hey Doug, I would be interested in your Petersen pump, what model is it specifically. Can you give me an idea about how much I would have into this converstion, and what all I need? I know I need a pickup, the pump, pump mount, "do they sell mounts or do I need to fab my own", drive mandrel, fittings and lines. I have a Canton block adapter now and a remote filter setup, I think these components will work. I also have a Canton pan with trap doors, I believe this pan will work also.

I have very little knowledge on external pump systems so any advice and any pictures of your setup would be very much appreciated.

Thanks Doug.

Vern
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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  Doug Rahn on August 31st 2010, 6:15 pm

The pump I have is Peterson Part #03-3852, 1.100 pressure section, 4 ea. .875 vacuum scavenge rotors. Pump fittings are, Outlet –12, Inlet –16, Scavenge fittings Inlet two –10’s, Outlet –12. I have this same pump on my 598. $850 includes shipping to lower 48.

If you use a motorplate it can be mounted to that using the bear claw mount it comes with. If you don't have a plate, your best option is to call Phillip Oakley. He's a Peterson dealer and can tell you more about what they have for mounts than I can. I'll see if I can find some receipts for the drive and other stuff, off the top of my head I have no idea what I paid for it.
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pick up tube

Post  69bluehotrod on February 9th 2011, 5:58 pm

Lem Evans wrote:


Lem, is this piece something you have available to buy? if so, does it accecpt #16 fitting? & hw much $.

thanks
Terry
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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  Lem Evans on February 9th 2011, 7:13 pm

Those mandrel bend pickups are something I had custom made several years ago for external pump conversions. They are 3/4" I.D. [1/16" bigger than the i.d. of a -12 hose] and has a -12 female thread so, one can use a -12/-12 or a -12/-16 adapter fitting. I think I may have one left. If you are interested I'll check on it and try to figure out what I have in it for $s.

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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  c.evans on February 9th 2011, 10:07 pm

96Mustang460cid wrote:I am considering purchasing an external oil pump. I want to buy a two stage pump with the oil pump and a scavenger (to pull the oil from my low mounted turbo). Can a wet sump oil pan be converted to properly work with an external oil pump? I've looked at Petersen's website and don't see any mention of conversion parts...

Thanks for the help!!!

Have a good day!
Michael

Michael,

Be careful here that you don't get a two stage pump mixed up with a Wet-Vac pump that Peterson makes.

1. A Wet-Vac is a combination single stage oil pump with a built in vacuum pump. It requires a breather tank for the outlet side of the scavenge sections, which generally pull from the valve covers.

2. A single stage belt driven oil pump is just that, and does not require a breather tank. The oil from the pick-up goes to the inlet side of the oil pump, and then the oil from the outlet side (pressure) of the pump goes into the block, generally at the oil filter pad.

3. A two stage, three stage, four stage or five stage pump is a dry sump set-up that requires a dry sump tank, and also a breather tank or at least one built onto or into the dry sump tank.

4. My question is, where are you going to put, or dump the oil that comes from your low mounted turbo, using your scavenge section?

Charlie Evans

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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  Lem Evans on February 9th 2011, 10:29 pm

You have just answered a question from......8/10/10.

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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  69bluehotrod on February 10th 2011, 3:52 pm

Lem Evans wrote:Those mandrel bend pickups are something I had custom made several years ago for external pump conversions. They are 3/4" I.D. [1/16" bigger than the i.d. of a -12 hose] and has a -12 female thread so, one can use a -12/-12 or a -12/-16 adapter fitting. I think I may have one left. If you are interested I'll check on it and try to figure out what I have in it for $s.

that would be great Lem, let me know.

Thanks
Terry
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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  maxed_out_rpms on January 10th 2012, 3:03 pm


To Charlie Evans - Charlie, Im switching my 514 BBF to an external oil pump also. The one I have is a Stock Car Products single stage pump. (a buddy had it rebuilt, but just sitting around in his garage for the last few months...so...free is free...haha) He gave me the pump and the filter adapter, no gears or belt. Because of the extra work his engine builder did on his small block Ford, it was plumbed differantly then i will have to on mine. I plan on using a #12 hose to come from the pan to the pump ( it has #12 fittings on both sides of the pump already) Then from the pump it will go threw a Peterson's 400 oil filter (75 microns) then into the oil filter adapter. My questions to you are:

1) Should I put the oil filter before the pump to help catch filings that might end up in the oil pan ?? (is it better to pull the oil threw the filter or push it threw?)
2) The oil filter adapter has 2 threaded holes, 1 in the middle and the other closer to the side. The oil that comes from the pump, should it go into the centre hole, or the outer hole? The other hole will just be blocked off.
3) What gear ratio should I be looking to run on a 514 BBF (I cross the line at 7000 rpm)(Drag race)

Thanks
Rick Miron

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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  maxed_out_rpms on January 10th 2012, 6:30 pm


Charlie....hahahaha...sorry Buddy...when I asked what gear ratio, I ment what gear ratio for the oil pump and not the rear end.

Thanks
Rick

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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  Lem Evans on January 10th 2012, 7:01 pm

53%-57% seems to work with most pumps.

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Re: External oil pump -- Converting a conventional wet sump oil pan

Post  c.evans on January 10th 2012, 8:55 pm

maxed_out_rpms wrote:
To Charlie Evans - Charlie, Im switching my 514 BBF to an external oil pump also. The one I have is a Stock Car Products single stage pump. (a buddy had it rebuilt, but just sitting around in his garage for the last few months...so...free is free...haha) He gave me the pump and the filter adapter, no gears or belt. Because of the extra work his engine builder did on his small block Ford, it was plumbed differantly then i will have to on mine. I plan on using a #12 hose to come from the pan to the pump ( it has #12 fittings on both sides of the pump already) Then from the pump it will go threw a Peterson's 400 oil filter (75 microns) then into the oil filter adapter. My questions to you are:

1) Should I put the oil filter before the pump to help catch filings that might end up in the oil pan ?? (is it better to pull the oil threw the filter or push it threw?)
2) The oil filter adapter has 2 threaded holes, 1 in the middle and the other closer to the side. The oil that comes from the pump, should it go into the centre hole, or the outer hole? The other hole will just be blocked off.
3) What gear ratio should I be looking to run on a 514 BBF (I cross the line at 7000 rpm)(Drag race)

Thanks
Rick Miron

Rick,

1. I suggest you get a Peterson Fluid Systems catalog. In the back of the catalog they have plumbing diagrams for dry sumps, single stage belt driven oil pumps, wet-vacs and etc.

2. In regards to your first question about filter location. You always must push the oil through your "real" engine oil filter, so "after your pump" is a must. Those that run an optional additional filter before the pump, known as a "scavenge filter", use a different size micron filter. In country boy lingo, the scavenge filters have bigger screen holes. Peterson clearly desiginates the micron size and the difference in their catalog.

3. The adapter hole that you will plumb into, will be the center hole. That's the one that sends the oil on into the block passages.

4. Lem has already answered your last question, but I believe that Stock Car Products generally always suggests 57% as your drive ratio.

Hope this helps,

Charlie

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