572 CID - Stock Kaase P51 heads

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Post  psfracer on October 22nd 2010, 10:17 pm

Here is the specifics on my build.

First the parts list:

A460 block 4.500 bore
Eagle 4340 4.500 stroke crankshaft
Eagle 6.700 H-Beam rods with ARP L-19 rod bolts
Diamond Pistons with a 12 CC dome --- worked out to be 16.2 to 1 compression with the P51 heads with 72cc chamber
Kaase P51 heads, completely stock and unported. I wanted to see how far I could push these right out of the box.
T&D shaft mount rocker arms
Comp Cams solid roller--intake 282 @ .050, .773 lift --- exhaust 296 @ .050, .749 lift --- 112 lobe center. Cam for small nitrous shot.
Manley Nextex springs with 316lbs on the seat, 1036 lbs open, installed height 2.100, coil bind at 1.200.
Titanium retainers
TFS intake
Carb Shop Dominator 1050
Moroso sheet metal valve covers (these are really nice)
Moroso vacuum pump set up
MSD Pro Billet distributor (small cap--large cap would not clear water neck area of intake manifold)
MSD Crank Trigger ignition
Danny Bee belt drive
ATI Harmonic Balancer
Moroso 8 qt drag race pan

Here are some pictures:

572 CID - Stock Kaase P51 heads  EngineDyno2web-1

572 CID - Stock Kaase P51 heads  EngineOct2web

572 CID - Stock Kaase P51 heads  EngineOCT5web

572 CID - Stock Kaase P51 heads  TitaniumSpringsRetainers

572 CID - Stock Kaase P51 heads  Carbrefinished3

572 CID - Stock Kaase P51 heads  TFSintake1

572 CID - Stock Kaase P51 heads  572shortblockweb3

572 CID - Stock Kaase P51 heads  572shortblockweb1

So far, after 1 dyno session that was cut short (only 7 pulls on a brand new, started for the first time motor), we ended up with 895 hp @ 6700 rpm. Timing was at 33 degrees, jetting was 92 on all 4 corners, A/F at 13.1 to 1.

Next Tuesday its going back on the dyno where we will break in the motor more, play with the cam timing, and take the engine up to 7500 rpm. Hopefully I will be able to post up a 920 number!

Here is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0sjhgUEOuc
572 CID - Stock Kaase P51 heads  DynoSheetweb1copy

LESSONS: probably should have went with a larger camshaft--all though I might have different data next Tuesday as we will try retarding the camshaft by 2 degrees. A larger camshaft along with fully ported P51s will be next time. The engine could probably use a larger carb also.


Last edited by psfracer on October 22nd 2010, 11:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  richter69 on October 22nd 2010, 10:32 pm

wondered how long it would take for you to migrate over to the "better" site.............. Wink
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Post  David Cole on October 22nd 2010, 10:40 pm

What kind of vacuum #'s did it pull on the dyno? What are the pump and mandrel pulley sizes? I'm trying to decide on which pump I want for my build.
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Post  psfracer on October 22nd 2010, 11:09 pm

richter69 wrote:wondered how long it would take for you to migrate over to the "better" site.............. Wink

Cool

David Cole wrote:What kind of vacuum #'s did it pull on the dyno? What are the pump and mandrel pulley sizes? I'm trying to decide on which pump I want for my build.

We only had it on 7.5 inches of vacuum and it was worth 18 hp vs the previous pull where the only difference was the pump was not hooked up. I have that regulator piece that comes off of the valve cover that you can change how much vacuum it pulls.

I took a picture of all of the parts, you can look at all of the part #s and hopefully that will help you--but the pulleys I used can pull more vacuum--we just started small on the vacuum. On the pull before we hooked it up, oil pressure was 77 psi at 6500. Then we hooked it up and oil pressure dropped to 70 psi at 6500 rpm. We might creep up to 10 inches of vacuum, but I don't see us running any more then that.

572 CID - Stock Kaase P51 heads  VacPumpSetup

Of note is the drive--even though its for a BBF, I had to return it and get one for a BBC as the ATI Balancer I had was set up for a BBC drive scratch
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Post  bruno on October 23rd 2010, 9:08 am

very nice build Paul ...... cant wait to see the car run

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Post  bigblockfox468 on October 23rd 2010, 1:08 pm

Nice Twisted Evil Good job Very Happy

I'm going to dyno one real soon too, hopefully next Saturday. Not as big as your's tho Wink
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Post  dfree383 on October 25th 2010, 10:42 am

Good Job !!
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Post  schmitty on October 25th 2010, 3:49 pm

Darn good #'s at respecable rpm's especially when this is mostly a bolt together deal with off the shelf parts. I would guess that the HP/$ is a relatively livable amount too. Don't get me wrong, this isn't a $5k crate engine, but for someone wanting this level of HP the $$'s invested would rival any brand for bang for the buck, and beat the pants off of most.
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Post  ThndrChkn on October 26th 2010, 12:34 am

schmitty wrote:Darn good #'s at respecable rpm's especially when this is mostly a bolt together deal with off the shelf parts. I would guess that the HP/$ is a relatively livable amount too. Don't get me wrong, this isn't a $5k crate engine, but for someone wanting this level of HP the $$'s invested would rival any brand for bang for the buck, and beat the pants off of most.

Agreed. Those #'s are impressive for unported heads, although you seem to have all of the other bases covered to make your combo very optimized for what you have in it.
Nice job, can't wait to see the results after some tweaking.





Doug... Cool
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Post  psfracer on October 26th 2010, 12:52 am

Tweaking is tomorrow! Will report any interesting findings of course.

Down the road when I refresh the motor, go with a bigger cam, and port the heads, it will be interesting to see what that would be worth hp wise.

In any case hopefully this thing will be around 920 hp by this time tomorrow. We will see.
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Post  jbozzelle on October 26th 2010, 10:36 am

This is what my 514 will grow up to be one day.

Pretty impressive numbers for out of the box heads...

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Post  psfracer on October 26th 2010, 6:02 pm

Final numbers 924hp @ 6900 rpm / 781 ft-lbs tq @ 5000 rpm, all motor.

Since I went too small on the cam we retarded it 2 degrees and picked up power. Add synthetic oil, and dropped total timing to 30 degrees.

Interesting that when we tried 28 degrees total timing the difference was only 4 hp peak power and 3 hp on the average.

I will post up video and dyno sheets when I get home.

Special thanks to Vrbancic Bros Racing---they are an outstanding builder. Thanks also to Kaase and his P51 cylinder head design. 924 hp from out of the box, stock p51s.
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Post  bruno on October 26th 2010, 6:06 pm

very impressive sir ...props to all involved cheers
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Post  Lem Evans on October 26th 2010, 6:34 pm

Cool Deal!
Sounds like it wanted 29*. Retarded 2*.......from 2* advanced or from straight up?

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Post  psfracer on October 26th 2010, 7:00 pm

2 degrees retarded from straight up.
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Post  1cobra2 on October 26th 2010, 7:02 pm

Good Job!!
You have a stump puller.

Ain't it fun--

Ed

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Post  TravisRice on October 26th 2010, 7:51 pm

Impressive build and a very nice car to boot. I have seen pictures of the car before but never associated it with a member here. I got a soft spot for Silver ................. Very Nice- Best Looking Mustang to date in my book king

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Post  richter69 on October 26th 2010, 7:55 pm

Them heads be bad ass, and just think you have room to grow later............. Very Happy
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Post  psfracer on October 26th 2010, 9:27 pm

Here is the dyno sheet:

572 CID - Stock Kaase P51 heads  DynoSheetFinal1web

572 CID - Stock Kaase P51 heads  EngineDyno11web

572 CID - Stock Kaase P51 heads  EngineDyno10web

I am very happy, especially when you consider I am running unported Kaase P51 heads. I really believe this motor is capable of 980 if it had a larger carb, larger cam, and ported heads. I did go a little small on the cam due to me wanting a low maintenance engine (with regards to valve springs).

Now I need to take the car down to have custom headers made, get the right converter with the ATI Powerglide, and some other details (like a belly pan--since I do not want to run an engine diaper) etc. so the car will not see the track until January.

Here is the video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXCRXZ-LRqA

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Post  Lem Evans on October 26th 2010, 9:38 pm

good intake manifolding.........it was in a 2 hp range for 500 rpm up high.

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Post  psfracer on October 26th 2010, 9:39 pm

Yep. Thats your manifold! Thanks LEM!
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Post  Lem Evans on October 26th 2010, 9:42 pm

Charlie and gang made that thing happen while ago.......we just need more of them.

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Post  KY JELLY on October 27th 2010, 9:38 am

awesome , great bang for the buck , until you start breaking rear ends, converters , drag the bumper off etc lol!
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Post  K.B.R on October 28th 2010, 3:52 pm

Ver nice numbers.And with box stock heads.

When do you think you'll be racing? Maybe I can make it to Fontana.


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Post  psfracer on October 28th 2010, 7:47 pm

Shooting for January. Still need to get the trans and converter and get the custom headers built--so it will be a couple more months.
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