Budget Street/Strip Stroker Build Advice w/ Existing Parts plus???

Here goes, I am thinking of a new project but haven't nailed down all (or many) of the details yet. I will try to set a little dialogue to keep it on track. First the body has 3-4 current possibilities from for sale to maybe for sale, there is a 1000lbs difference between the lightest and the heaviest (2500-3500 lbs)of the choices, final gearing/ tire will not be established at this time until the body is secured. The base engine for the BUDGET build is an early 70's .060 473 which is where the real questions begin. Keeping in mind all the incidentals that will occur, I want to build the most HP possible using pump gas, while also using as many instock parts as possible, I have another 473 to build when the time is right(run what u brung reach for the stars later) I want a 9-10 sec street car (if attainable).
  The beginning will be the instock parts 2-bolt block with windage tray hi vol pump, gear drive or double roller chain, CJ rods (shot peened/polished), DOVE-C heads mild work, roller rockers, multiple cams(TBD), 850 Demon, Nitrous (250), aluminum high rise intake, MSD & Dist. C-6 (CJ Finnedcase) clutches/drum etc new 3500 converter...now for the non stock parts based on bang for the buck...4.3" crank likely cast SCAT(utillizing CJ rods) (no replacement for displacement) Diamond pistons, Main girdle. Next the questionables: Aluminum SCJ heads, Bigger Carb (1050-ish), custom ground cam (for NOS)cutting into budget, pump gas motor 1-hr drive to the local track.

Thoughts

FalconEh wrote:Here goes, I am thinking of a new project but haven't nailed down all (or many) of the details yet. I will try to set a little dialogue to keep it on track. First the body has 3-4 current possibilities from for sale to maybe for sale, there is a 1000lbs difference between the lightest and the heaviest (2500-3500 lbs)of the choices, final gearing/ tire will not be established at this time until the body is secured. The base engine for the BUDGET build is an early 70's .060 473 which is where the real questions begin. Keeping in mind all the incidentals that will occur, I want to build the most HP possible using pump gas, while also using as many instock parts as possible, I have another 473 to build when the time is right(run what u brung reach for the stars later) I want a 9-10 sec street car (if attainable).
  The beginning will be the instock parts 2-bolt block with windage tray hi vol pump, gear drive or double roller chain, CJ rods (shot peened/polished), DOVE-C heads mild work, roller rockers, multiple cams(TBD), 850 Demon, Nitrous (250), aluminum high rise intake, MSD & Dist. C-6 (CJ Finnedcase) clutches/drum etc new 3500 converter...now for the non stock parts based on bang for the buck...4.3" crank likely cast SCAT(utillizing CJ rods) (no replacement for displacement) Diamond pistons, Main girdle. Next the questionables: Aluminum SCJ heads, Bigger Carb (1050-ish), custom ground cam (for NOS)cutting into budget, pump gas motor 1-hr drive to the local track.

Thoughts

You can build a whole lot of power ... for a little while, until it breaks.  Half of that crap is trash and certainly ill matched but, you are only wishing for power..

After it breaks,  just do it again.
No need for spending money on any parts which might actually add some longevity or a bit of endurance to the project ... the simple target is POWER ... as cheap as you can get it.

Go have fun with your new engine as long as you can.

You can build a whole lot of power ... for a little while, until it breaks.  Half of that crap is trash and certainly ill matched but, you are only wishing for power..

After it breaks,  just do it again.
No need for spending money on any parts which might actually add some longevity or a bit of endurance to the project ... the simple target is POWER ... as cheap as you can get it.

Go have fun with your new engine as long as you can.[/quote]

Hi Randy I was hoping you would reply, OK dump the stock rods and go with the H-Beam aftermarket rods, 4340 crank start building the next motor now, are the DOVE-C heads do-able for now(fund the crank/rods) dont't want to wish for power want real power NOS is only for fender racing with traction problems out of the hole on them greasy friday nights. Give me jist...and by the way do you ship to Canada?

Get some good rods forged pistons the stock crank is good don't waist your money on a after market cast crank if you want to go stroker offset grind the factory crank.

A double roller chain is good don't waist your time with a gear drive, cast iron heads will need to do some work on the chamber I would go aluminum myself get a solid roller cam or flat tappet.

A stock 460 with the hose will go 10s easy in a 2500lb car will it live mmmmmm just try it and see...

Sounds like a fun experiment.

A stock 460 with the hose will go 10s easy in a 2500lb car will it live mmmmmm just try it and see... [/quote]

I get the potential just looking to see where I want the money to go, I could always put the CJ rods in an older (or newer ford truck) and it may be 3500 lbs so the bottom end needs to survive...I also like the potential of the 528 as a street motor bigger when it is a track only package.

gmsmkr wrote:Get some good rods forged pistons the stock crank is good don't waist your money on a after market cast crank if you want to go stroker offset grind the factory crank.

A double roller chain is good don't waist your time with a gear drive, cast iron heads will need to do some work on the chamber I would go aluminum myself get a solid roller cam or flat tappet.

A stock 460 with the hose will go 10s easy in a 2500lb car will it live mmmmmm just try it and see...

An offset ground 501 with 4340 I-beam rods and forged pistons would be about the minimum for that type engine and still be halfway dependable.

rmcomprandy wrote:

gmsmkr wrote:Get some good rods forged pistons the stock crank is good don't waist your money on a after market cast crank if you want to go stroker offset grind the factory crank.

A double roller chain is good don't waist your time with a gear drive, cast iron heads will need to do some work on the chamber I would go aluminum myself get a solid roller cam or flat tappet.

A stock 460 with the hose will go 10s easy in a 2500lb car will it live mmmmmm just try it and see...

An offset ground 501 with 4340 I-beam rods and forged pistons would be about the minimum for that type engine and still be halfway dependable.

Maxium

- Offset ground crank would that be for a BBC or BBD rod ?
- Dove heads stay or go ?
- streetable carb to compliment (driveability 1st ET second)

I've built a number of cheap builds.....

Don't skimp on the rods, use as light as affordable piston and please do not use cheap valve train parts..... You get what you pay for in valve train parts.

rmcomprandy wrote:

gmsmkr wrote:Get some good rods forged pistons the stock crank is good don't waist your money on a after market cast crank if you want to go stroker offset grind the factory crank.

A double roller chain is good don't waist your time with a gear drive, cast iron heads will need to do some work on the chamber I would go aluminum myself get a solid roller cam or flat tappet.

A stock 460 with the hose will go 10s easy in a 2500lb car will it live mmmmmm just try it and see...

An offset ground 501 with 4340 I-beam rods and forged pistons would be about the minimum for that type engine and still be halfway dependable.

This is why randy said in his first post most of what you wanted would not live like you want I just gave a some what dependable guide for some what stock parts for what you want.

As for max forged crank and some h beam rods with light weight forged pistons.

Question is what is your budget as everybody's is different and what can you do your self to help cut cost?

dfree383 wrote:I've built a number of cheap builds.....

Don't skimp on the rods, use as light as affordable piston and please do not use cheap valve train parts..... You get what you pay for in valve train parts.

Agreed, would I be better with an Eagle 501 cast crank and 4340 H-beam rods rather than the offset ground as I know of these available locally on a abandoned project (new parts)

If you have the money to spend I'd use a scat. The machine work tends to be a little nicer on them.

And as far as stroke...... If you are buying a complete rotating assembly, I'd get a 4.5 stroker and build it as big as possible and spend the few extra dollars on the forged one they do last a lot longer.

Also if your looking to go fast get the lightest car possible it makes life a lot easier and less expensive in the long run.

If you build a 2700 lb car with a 557 and a good set of SCJ heads you won't need the 250 shot to go low 10's or high 9's, that makes it easier too.

A stock offset ground crank is stronger than a scat or eagle cast crank, check with your machine shop and see if they can grind the crank for you,

dfree383 wrote:If you have the money to spend I'd use a scat. The machine work tends to be a little nicer on them.

And as far as stroke...... If you are buying a complete rotating assembly, I'd get a 4.5 stroker and build it as big as possible and spend the few extra dollars on the forged one they do last a lot longer.

Also if your looking to go fast get the lightest car possible it makes life a lot easier and less expensive in the long run.

If you build a 2700 lb car with a 557 and a good set of SCJ heads you can go high 9's if you shut it off early.

There, Dave...fixed it for you.

What amazes me is how People have the money to do it Twice instead of doing it right the first time

Okay, so junk the internals! Budget build is out run one of the 473's as is for now if necessary . However there is still a few question marks, this is going to be a street/strip car and if I am going to do the 4340 Crank/4340 H-beam rods, forged pistons, I would still like to stick with the 4.3" crank, the rod ratio is better for those set on kill nights with nitrous, and I likely will use -38 cc pistons for approx. 10:1 pump gas (++for nitrous) motor. This now is going to require the SCJ aluminum heads but still have the streetable carb question among others. How much can the OEM blocks handle before you need to move up to the FRPP block, and will this combination likely get me there with a relatively reliable combination.

Why do you people always come up with this Rod Ratio crap? it is what it is. you use a stroke and a rod and accept what the ratio is, it is not the end of the world, throw the Rod Ratio crap out the window and quit worrying about it. The stock Block will handle 850 to 950 Hp probably more than you will need anyways on the street. I expect to read about you in the Obits if you really think you need more than 500hp on the streets, because it is uncontrollable at best....

A stock 2 bolt block will hold all you want with scj heads and pump gas.

As for a carb QF dommy 1050 or 1250 will work good

the Coug wrote:Why do you people always come up with this Rod Ratio crap? it is what it is. you use a stroke and a rod and accept what the ratio is, it is not the end of the world, throw the Rod Ratio crap out the window and quit worrying about it. The stock Block will handle 850 to 950 Hp probably more than you will need anyways on the street. I expect to read about you in the Obits if you really think you need more than 500hp on the streets, because it is uncontrollable at best....

X2 most people don't really know what 500hp feels like on the street. The rod to stroke ratio is silly

Factory 2 bolt blocks work for me up to around 650-700 hp. The carb wont have much to do with street manners as the cam grind will. Glad that you are onto a rotating assembly with good rods and crank. Make sure that your piston valve reliefs match your heads.

maverick wrote:

There, Dave...fixed it for you.

Shucks..... you took the surprise right out of it!

gmsmkr wrote:

the Coug wrote:Why do you people always come up with this Rod Ratio crap? it is what it is. you use a stroke and a rod and accept what the ratio is, it is not the end of the world, throw the Rod Ratio crap out the window and quit worrying about it. The stock Block will handle 850 to 950 Hp probably more than you will need anyways on the street. I expect to read about you in the Obits if you really think you need more than 500hp on the streets, because it is uncontrollable at best....

X2 most people don't really know what 500hp feels like on the street. The rod to stroke ratio is silly

what people don't understand it is not the HP that will get you on the street it is the Torque, the torque is always there any time the engine is running...when you wish to build an engine with say 750 to 850 hp what they seem to forget is that they have 750 to 850 ft lbs of torque also and it is always there....ask Kaase how it feels to have all that HP and torque on the street! Quote he said you can touch or blip the throttle at any speed and it is out of control instantly it WILL light the tire up at will at any speed anywhere.

the Coug wrote: I expect to read about you in the Obits if you really think you need more than 500hp on the streets, because it is uncontrollable at best....

I appreciate the sediment however, I did NOT say I was STREET RACING - I said the TRACK is a ONE HOUR DRIVE
I have had 500+ on the street with way too loose of a converter, and a reverse gated trans-brake not an enjoyable cruise at all, I also said I wanted a 9-10 second capable car which could mean 650-700 NA horsepower plus nitrous.

I've driven cars that would light 'em up in any gear, pretty much any speed. In such cases, one would be advised to employ some sort of progressive throttle linkage instead of a toggle switch. That way the car only does what the right foot tells it to do.

FalconEh wrote:

the Coug wrote: I expect to read about you in the Obits if you really think you need more than 500hp on the streets, because it is uncontrollable at best....

I appreciate the sediment however, I did NOT say I was STREET RACING - I said the TRACK is a ONE HOUR DRIVE
I have had 500+ on the street with way too loose of a converter, and a reverse gated trans-brake not an enjoyable cruise at all, I also said I wanted a 9-10 second capable car which could mean 650-700 NA horsepower plus nitrous.

Its not street racing that will get you its that simple blip of the throttle to pass or just showing off.

On my old turbo car it could be going 75mph down the road pull out and punch it goes to 25psi and is smoking the tires to pass a car its cool and fun but at a 70+ kick its hard to control.

But then again I'm the kinda of guy that will climb over a full caged car and drive it to the track run 9sec passes and drive it home having to give it short full speed burst just to keep it happy.