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C-6 trans questions.

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Post  Mustang-junky August 19th 2016, 11:23 am

I need to put together a c-6 for my '79 bronco which will be getting my 545 dropped in it soon. I have three c-6's to work with. First is the stock '79 c-6 which is supposed to be in good working order according to the previous owner of the bronco, not sure of the mileage. Second is a drag race 2wd c-6. It is supposed to have extra clutches, roller bearings, reverse manual shift, and has an aftermarket shift servo.

My plan was to pull the transfer case adapter and output shaft from the stock '79 trans, and swap them onto the drag trans. However, the drag trans has a broken ear on one of the top mounting bolts. Would I be okay adding the guts from the drag trans to the stock '79 case? Assuming all clearances were okay. Drag trans has a trans brake witch I don't plan on using, I wasn't sure if there were any mods commonly done to the case to accommodate the brake other than a hole for the wires to go through, that might be an issue if I were to just swap the internals.

Third trans is a c-6 from a 1987 f-350 diesel. It has a shift kit, but all I have read says that the diesels had a very different valve body, not suitable for use with a gas motor. Any truth to that? Also, is there a chance that this trans would have a four pinion planetary? Thanks.

Jess
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Post  Frank Merkl August 19th 2016, 11:52 am

use which ever one you want , and follow my instructions here
http://www.460ford.com/forum/42-general-tech/105603-c6-trans-build-transbrake-manual-valvebody.html
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Post  Mustang-junky August 24th 2016, 10:40 pm

Thanks. I copied your direction out.

I have the three c-6s pulled apart now.

In that thread you added a chart for servo levers and their ratios. A through F, the lever in the diesel c-6 has a K lever. Must be a diesel thing? Same trans(1987 f-350) had four clutches in the reverse-high clutch, four in the forward clutch, and five in the low reverse clutch, only a three pinion planetary though.

It did have a roller bearing in the #9 position. The "race" trans and stock bronco '79 trans have regular thrust bearings in #9. Could the roller bearing be used in place of the thrust washer? Looks like it is around .050" thicker than the standard washer.
C-6 trans questions. 19F2718B-A524-488F-B10F-91B65ECD54B5_zpsqiz485jw

The "race" c-6 had a TCI trans brake, seems some people are having problems with these, 2 to 3 gear flair? Could I experience the same issues if I didn't use the brake? I would just use it as a manual shift valve body.

The "Race" trans also has an aftermarket servo. Any idea of the brand? I didn't see any markings.

C-6 trans questions. 29928016-D30F-49EC-86B0-BB38F104EAC8_zps091ggqdw

C-6 trans questions. 428233AB-15E5-43BB-B653-9625D540CC89_zpswd5zpetv

One last thing. The same c-6 didn't have a governor, oil feed tubes, or seal rings on the output shaft. Is there any reason for doing this?
C-6 trans questions. EA689E44-5B8E-419E-831C-0C38742CC713_zpslmqtex2h

Thanks for your time.

Jess
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Post  Frank Merkl August 25th 2016, 12:30 am

no governor needed with the transbrake VB, with that #9 torrington bearing use the one way race that was in the trans in came out of should be 1.050" as opposed to a non torrington one being 1.089" thick ,the double race torrington uses a one-way race 1.008" thick. That's a Supeior brand servo and there good . you only need the 4 pinion rear planetary over 800ft/qt
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Post  Frank Merkl August 25th 2016, 12:32 am

take the transbrake vb apart and follow myfix in general tech on the 460ford site
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Post  Frank Merkl August 25th 2016, 12:34 am

as far as the goveror sleeve remove it and reinstall the snap ring , it's not needed
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Post  Mustang-junky August 25th 2016, 1:41 pm

Frank Merkl wrote:take the transbrake vb apart and follow myfix  in general tech on the 460ford site
Frank

Is this what you were referring to?

If it's a TCI I have a fix for it as the problem is the 2 checkball slots in the lower half of the valvebody are too large and too long and the checkball cannot find there seats in the spacer plate. there should be 2- 1/4" steel checkball ,one in each slot . you need to fill these slots with JB WEld or another good 2 part epoxy , then using the spacer plate as a pattern mark the 4 checkball seats in the epoxy - using a 9/32" drill bit drill 4 holes in the epoxy approximately 9/32" deep at the 4 marked spots, then using the drillbit router a new checkball slot in the epoxy , make sure the checkballs will roll free from one end to the other in both slots - install the spacerplate and check to make sure the checkballs will roll from one end of the slot to the other and not over shoot there intended seat, the holes in the spacerplate should be 7/32" for the High checkball and 5/32" for the low checkball . In between the lower half of the valvebody and the spacerplate there should be a gasket ,if there is not make one out of .005" gasket material, Torque all Valvebody bolts to 55 inch/lb's
Frank

Thanks for being so helpful.

Jess
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Post  Mustang-junky August 25th 2016, 1:47 pm

Frank Merkl wrote:no governor needed with the transbrake VB, with that #9 torrington bearing use the one way race that was in the trans in came out of should be 1.050" as opposed to a non torrington one being 1.089" thick ,the double race torrington uses a one-way race 1.008" thick.
Frank  

The bearing race that the torrington bearing mates with measures up at 1.041", and shows some wear, enough to catch a fingernail on. Looks like I should get a new one. Broader sells the race and bearing together for $35. I was going to order a teflon sealing kit and a Kevlar flex band from them anyway. Thanks.

Jess

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Post  Mustang-junky August 25th 2016, 1:50 pm

Frank Merkl wrote:as far as the goveror sleeve remove it and reinstall the snap ring , it's not needed
Frank

Isn't the governor sleeve needed to keep the parking gear in position? I will be driving the bronco this trans is going into on the street, and need to have a functional park.

Also, does the TCI transbrake valvebody retain engine braking? Thanks.

Jess
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Post  Frank Merkl August 25th 2016, 3:29 pm

the snap ring holds the park gear in place , and that vb has engine braking
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Post  Mustang-junky August 25th 2016, 4:18 pm

Frank Merkl wrote:the snap ring holds the park gear in place , and that vb has engine braking
Frank

Okay. I missed the snap ring, it's still on the output shaft on both transmissions.

I swapped the one ton axles from the f-350 into my bronco. Even with the bigger brakes, I'll probably be glad for the engine braking. Thanks again.

Jess
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Post  kjett August 26th 2016, 8:11 am

Are you racing the bronco or just a play toy? Unless you are racing it, no real need for the transbrake. Follow Frank's instructions to the letter and you will live a long happy life no matter what you throw at it! My ranger has never been as fast as it is this year after saying to heck with all the local transmission shops, giving Frank a call, and doing it myself. Be aware, if you do the #9 conversion, just be ready to do some machine work to get everything right. I bought a kit that was supposed to be bolt in and ended up having to cut down the race some to make it to Frank's dimensions.

Not that I want to give up my "secret stash" of parts, but I did find that www.transpartsonline.com had most of the hard to find hard parts (snap rings, springs, pistons, etc. ) that you will need if you don't have an older c6 to start with.
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Post  Mustang-junky August 26th 2016, 10:43 pm

kjett wrote:Are you racing the bronco or just a play toy? Unless you are racing it, no real need for the transbrake. Follow Frank's instructions to the letter and you will live a long happy life no matter what you throw at it! Be aware, if you do the #9 conversion, just be ready to do some machine work to get everything right. I bought a kit that was supposed to be bolt in and ended up having to cut down the race some to make it to Frank's dimensions.

Not that I want to give up my "secret stash" of parts, but I did find that www.transpartsonline.com had most of the hard to find hard parts (snap rings, springs, pistons, etc. ) that you will need if you don't have an older c6 to start with.

Just a toy. It probably wouldn't fit in any classes anyway.

I'm just using the TCI transbrake valve body because I already have it. I don't intend to ever use the brake, just going to manual shift the c-6. I will be using a tunnel ram or Victor intake(again it's what I have on hand) so messing with a downshift lever isn't going to happen.

Thanks for the heads up on the site and the #9 deal.

Jess
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Post  Gregaust August 27th 2016, 6:39 pm

Frank Merkl wrote:That's a Superior brand servo and there good .
Frank  

Wondering if the Superior fits ok with no machining like the Sonnax ones do? Interesting info on the different thickness rear races Smile

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Post  Frank Merkl August 30th 2016, 1:55 am

I install a couple but to be honest I can't remember if I had to machine them
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Post  kjett August 30th 2016, 8:29 am

Frank Merkl wrote:I install a couple but to be honest I can't remember if I had to machine them
Frank

Old guy problems Razz
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Post  Mustang-junky September 2nd 2016, 7:25 pm

I was looking through some C-6 posts on the other forum and came across this.

http://www.460ford.com/forum/42-general-tech/113120-c-6-transmission-i-d-rebuild-questions-maybe-sticky-6.html

"I talked to Trans-go about blocking off the governor oil feed. They said no problem on a drag race only application, but not for a daily driver. He said the governor splashed oil back to the extension housing bushing and without it on a daily driver it may cause a failure."

I plan on putting some miles on my bronco, will the TCI valve body not sending fluid to the governor cause the #10 thrust washer to be starve for oil?

Thanks.

Jess
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Post  Gregaust September 3rd 2016, 3:26 am

I think the concern is more the rear bush than the #10 washer that is behind the park gear . You can add a roller there if you wanted to , as for lube to the bush I reckon you'll be fine Wink

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Post  Frank Merkl September 3rd 2016, 4:02 am

I was concerned about that all so until I put a 2" lexan window in the tail housing on my Dyno unit , There is more oil suspended in the air in the trans that rear bushing lub is not a concern
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Post  Frank Merkl September 3rd 2016, 4:09 am

I'll testing constantly as I want a trans that will last 200 passes at 3000hp-4000hp without needing to rebuilt , fluid changes only , and I'm getting close!!
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Post  Frank Merkl September 3rd 2016, 4:16 am

as is My second gear transbrake C6 VB , with the 6 pinion planetary's and a 1.54 second gear for the big power turbo cars!! as I need it for My new car!!
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Post  Mustang-junky September 3rd 2016, 2:40 pm

Gregaust wrote:I think the concern is more the rear bush than the #10 washer that is behind the park gear . You can add a roller there if you wanted to , as for lube to the bush I reckon you'll be fine Wink

Being a 4x4 the rear bushing is in the transfer case.

I just mention the #10 washer because the one in the trans that had the TCI brake was pretty whooped. I thought it might be from lack of the governor being lubed.. Thanks again.

Jess
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Post  Gregaust September 4th 2016, 3:40 am

Well in that case, perhaps a roller is warranted there. I've done it a couple ways , One was to machine up an aluminum seat for the bearing to sit in , then machine the park gear accordingly.
But then came across a couple that had washer removed , Gear machined and bearing runs direct on the case . Seems to work just fine

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Post  Mustang-junky September 4th 2016, 10:21 am

That's pretty slick. If I have trouble with it I'll have to look into doing that. I don't have the equipment to do that, but I know someone who does.

I have the trans together now, just have to replace the first washer to tighten up the end play a bit. It's at .045", but I have the assortment of different thickness washer to adjust end play. Then on to the TCI valvebody mod.

Jess
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Post  Mustang-junky September 4th 2016, 11:23 am

Got end play to .033", seems to be in the middle of everyone's recommendations, so I'll going to leave it there. I have rollers in positions #7, 8, and 9.

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