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Trick Flow street Flow numbers

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Post  jones April 8th 2010, 10:34 am

Does anyone have the out of the box TFS Street flow numbers, or know if they are posted some where on the website?

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Post  the Coug April 8th 2010, 10:55 am

Courtesy of Charlie Evans

This post is about flow data with the Trick Flow Street Heads, they are in what I call the CJ Family of heads. Mike's heads have worked their way through here and will be shipped out Monday. They were assembled heads and the casting quality is excellent. The valve job to bowl transition was done by a CNC machine, not a bowl cutter, so that transition is really smooth. Intake valves are 2.200" and exhausts are 1.760". Chamber cc's were 72.

TFS gives the flowing flow numbers in there spec sheet.
Intakes; .100=72, .200=152, .300=219, .400=280, .500=320, .600=344, .700=350 cfm @ 28" H2O
Exhaust; .100=60, .200=110, .300=145, .400=180, .500=204, .600=225, .700=240 cfm @ 28" H2O

My baseline numbers on the heads out of the box were.
Intakes; .100=66.5, .200=143.8, .300=211.3, .400=274.8, .500=325.3, .600=351, .700=351.3, .750=351.8 cfm @ 28" H2O.

Exhaust; .100=50.5, .200=99.8, .300=138, .400=168.5, .500=193.3, .600=211.3, .700=222.5, .750=226.8 cfm @ 28" H2O.

After "Superbowl" blending and polished chambers we have.
Intakes; .100=67.7, .200=146, .300=214, .400=279, .500=328.4, .600=356, .700=354, .750=354 cfm @ 28" H2O.

Exhaust; .100=54, .200=104, .300=143, .400=178, .500=206, .600=227, .700=235, .750=235 cfm @ 28" H2O.

Fully ported we have.
Intakes; .100=69, .200=148, .300=233, .400=301, .500=335, .600=357, .700=373, .750=378 cfm.

Exhaust; .100=64, .200=116, .300=147, .400=178, .500=208, .600=228, .700=240, .750=240 cfm.

Generally bowl blending with most heads is more beneficial than it was with these heads. That's just a testimony as to how nice these heads are out of the box. The greatest gains seemed to be in the mid-range on the exhaust ports.

We think these heads represent a very good value for the dollar. My biggest complaint is that the spring seat cup is a stamped "cheap" piece that doesn't really stop any valve spring wiggle because it doesn't locate on either the guide or the machined aluminum on the outside. I'd recommend changing that for race engines, but it will be okay for street/strip engines.

Port Size

Courtesy of Scott Johnson

The TFS intake ports are all offset looking to match the Victor intake port centers. When this is done, are the ports the same size or is the TFS port slightly larger that the Victor intake port, and then, do you open up the Victor side some? I'm planning to use TFS streets on a large cube motor. Are the TFS different that the old A429 heads? A bunch of people use mildly ported A429 heads on 545 and 557 motors with good results.

The TFS streets have a Dove sized intake port on Dove port centers. The victor intake has dove sized port exits on the cj centers. When matching the tfs streets to the victor intake the ports are raised with 1 and 3 going left and 2 and 4 more straight up.

TFS streets will support 800 HP and after I port them the passange is pretty good sized. I have sold many pair to clients with 521 and 545 inch stroker combos. One client with a propane powered 545 with a blow through super charger is making 1050 HP.

Dont let the small port cross section fool you. The TFS streets are a very very good cylinder head. The TFS streets minimum intake port cross sections are quite similar to the first gen aluminum cj's which are not nearly as large as the iron cjs are.

Every pair of TFS streets I have done beat my ported first gen aluminum cj's by 15 cfm at .600", 7 to 10 cfm at .700" and 5 to 10 CFM at .800" The streets have a highly active, very efficient and well engineered intake port.




Maybe this will help Josh


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Post  jones April 8th 2010, 10:56 am

Ok from Trick flow here is the base flow numbers
Lift Value Intake Flow CFM Exhaust Flow CFM
74cc chambers
0.100" 72 60
0.200" 152 110
0.300" 219 145
0.400" 280 180
0.500" 331 204
0.600" 344 225
0.700" 350 240
Tests conducted at 28" of water (pressure); exhaust with 2" pipe.
2.20 intake 1.76 exhaust

CNC TFS Street Flow numbers as of today (could change when relased in June or July) priced around $2,700 88cc chambers
0.100" 81 58
0.200" 102 115
0.300" 262 160
0.400" 332 196
0.500" 370 223
0.600" 388 261
0.700" 401 290
0.800" 408 302
2.25 intake 1.76 exhaust


Last edited by jones on April 8th 2010, 12:13 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post  jones April 8th 2010, 11:20 am

I found this interesting, I think the main differance is the large cc chambers in the CNC versions 74cc stock 88cc CNC
RPM/hp/trq/hp/trq
2000/210/550/205/539
2500/273/574/264/554
3000/341/597/328/573
3500/421/632/405/607
4000/502/658/483/634
4500/575/671/559/652
5000/623/654/612/643
5500/657/627/651/622
6000/658/576/661/579
Aver/473.615.463.600.

This is just a DTD using the same cam specs for each head. I'm sure if you change to a solid roller with the CNC version it would change quite a bit. As this is just with my current Hyd flat tappet camshaft


Last edited by jones on April 8th 2010, 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  jbozzelle April 8th 2010, 11:44 am

Do it to it...

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Post  jones April 8th 2010, 12:09 pm

Changing the camshaft to a Solid roller 34-711-9 Grind 288BR-8 the numbers bettered for the CNC heads. If I had to guess I'd deck the heads to cut that chamber down unless I was trying to run pump gas.

217/569
276/579
340/595
417/626
493/647
565/659
618/649
650/621
654/572
470.613.

Dur @ .50 252/260
Seat 288/296
Lift 726/726
Lobe center line 108
Intake center line 108

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Post  jones April 8th 2010, 12:24 pm

This is using the flow numbers posted on the forum for box stock streets and my current hyd flat tappet camshaft. Average numbers compare pretty close IMO

213/558
277/582
346/605
424/636
501/658
571/666
613/644
640/611
633/554
468.612.


Reminder: I am just playing around just looking and comparing and thought someone else might get some type of cookie out of this?

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Post  jones April 8th 2010, 12:31 pm

Also this is my current engine combonation so don't take this as this is the max these could do. I still have the J429 dual plane intake manafold, small headers and 1150cfm carb.

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Post  511Fox April 8th 2010, 12:32 pm

Guys those seem like good numbers but how do they compare price wise to Eddy's & Ford SCJs Question Suspect

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Post  jones April 8th 2010, 12:36 pm

511Fox wrote:Guys those seem like good numbers but how do they compare price wise to Eddy's & Ford SCJs Question Suspect

Depends on the Cubic inches and weight IMO? I am looking at a 4000lb truck. If you had a 2000lb car you would probably want to go the SCJ/P51 route. Not sure about the Edlebrocks

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Post  jones April 8th 2010, 12:41 pm

I was also told that the CNC version are a totaly new tooling. I would assume the regular Streets come with the ports cast where these pretty much have no port cast into them.

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Post  richter69 April 8th 2010, 12:44 pm

All the nalum heads we have now work pretty damn good, I'd let whatever I could find a deal on sway my opinion on which set to get.......or if you gotta buy it all new from the git go get a P51 as it looks like they have the best ability to make power when worked as compared to all the others. Next step up would be an A460 head.
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Post  511Fox April 8th 2010, 12:48 pm

I have always heard how good the A-460 heads are but wondered about their streetability.

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Post  cobrakid8 April 9th 2010, 5:47 pm

probably a dumb question but are the Trick Flow Street heads the Trick Flow Powerport 290 heads? If so how are they better and if so how much better are they than the Edelbrock 460 Performer RPM heads the 75CC ones?

Thanks,
Doug

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Post  windsor April 9th 2010, 6:59 pm

cobrakid8 wrote:probably a dumb question but are the Trick Flow Street heads the Trick Flow Powerport 290 heads?
Yes.

cobrakid8 wrote:If so how are they better and if so how much better are they than the Edelbrock 460 Performer RPM heads the 75CC ones?

They're definitely better. "how much" is hard to say, but see below:

IV. The standard Ford Production Heads;
In this family we have several heads including both cast iron OEM production and aftermarket alum. heads. I'd suggest that the pecking order would be;
1. FRPP Kaase designed SCJ and the soon to be released Kaase designed P-51 head.
2. The Blue Thunder "B" head which is the one with the raised exhaust port and the Chevy style flange pattern.
3&4 (tied) Blue Thunder with the raised exhaust port and Ford bolt pattern, and the TFS Street Heat head, again with a raised exhaust port and Ford bolt pattern.
5,6,7,8,9&10 Big log jam here, but we have the old Ford A-429 heads, the Blue Thunder CJ head with standard exhaust port location, the old style TFS CJ head, and the three different versions of the Edelbrock RPM/CJ heads.

https://www.429-460.com/proven-builds-f4/cylinder-head-pecking-order-t119.htm
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Post  Lem Evans April 9th 2010, 7:15 pm

511Fox wrote:I have always heard how good the A-460 heads are but wondered about their streetability.
Let me first start by saying a big thanks to everyone that helped! Lem and Phillip definately found some hidden power in the tune. I can honestly say that the ability to just know what will make an engine happy is very impressive. To say that I am happy with the results is a big understatement, I did not expect near what was produced.

The build:
557 cubic inch
4.440" bore Venolia flat tops 11:1 comp ratio
6.700" Scat rods
4.500" Scat forged crank
TFS 2.300" small valve A460 Heads bone stock
Old style TFS/FMS unported intake
Mild custom Comp roller by Lem Evans at B.F.Evans Race Parts

A racer could literaly order pretty much any part of this build off the shelf and put it together... Nothing exotic here. A true testimate to what can be done with the great parts we have available....

The Results:

With a standard Holley 1150 provided by Lem Evans on a mixture of 80% 93 octane pump gas and 20% 110...

826.4 hp @ 6300 rpm
755.3 ft. lbs @ 4800 rpm

With a Quick Fuel 1250 provided by Phillip Oakley on a mixture of 80% 93 octane pump gas and 20% 110...

830.5 hp @ 6300 rpm
760.8 ft. lbs. @ 4800 rpm

With the same Quick Fuel provided by Phillip Oakley on 110 Munster Fuel...

838 hp @ 6300 rpm
775.7 ft. lbs. @ 4800 rpm

We are going to do a little more testing tomorrow, we think there is a little more left to find... Again, thanks to everyone that helped... I had a great time and learned a lot! Thanks!!!
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Will 755 lbs. ft. move your street car Smile
Smaller cam and carb. will make it as street as it's gotta be.

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Post  511Fox April 10th 2010, 9:08 am

Those are great numbers 755 LB ft of TQ is nothing to sneeze at.

Just wonder what E-85 or pure Ethanol or Methanol #'s would look like.

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