Maybe change the front while working on the back!
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Maybe change the front while working on the back!
While my car is down for the installation of the new back half, I’ve been contemplating the idea of losing a bunch of weight off of the front. As much as I would like to use Strange or Lamb struts on the front, right now the cost would be way too high. So I came up with this idea to remove all of the sheet metal on the front and still use the stock struts and frame rails with the lightweight brakes I’m getting. Then install the fiberglass nose piece that VFN has. Any thoughts on this?





Doug Rahn- BBF CONTRIBUTOR

- Posts: 922
Join date: 2009-08-07
Age: 60
Location: Springfield, GA

Re: Maybe change the front while working on the back!
O.K., that looks like it can be done without spending alot of dollars??????????????????

airford1- Posts: 34
Join date: 2009-10-15
Re: Maybe change the front while working on the back!
That looks like a great idea. Just wondering if the remaining stock framerail piece will be rigid enough with the support structure removed?
You could just go ahead and front clip it and use some modified stock struts. We used to use the old Capri struts and they worked great. I've also seen Mazda struts used.
You could just go ahead and front clip it and use some modified stock struts. We used to use the old Capri struts and they worked great. I've also seen Mazda struts used.

BigDave65- Posts: 445
Join date: 2009-08-12
Age: 46
Location: Cliffside, NC
Re: Maybe change the front while working on the back!
airford1 wrote:O.K., that looks like it can be done without spending alot of dollars??????????????????
True, I already have all the tubing on hand so that's a plus, just have to get the plate to replicate the top of the original strut towers and buy the fiberglass front.

Doug Rahn- BBF CONTRIBUTOR

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Age: 60
Location: Springfield, GA

Re: Maybe change the front while working on the back!
BigDave65 wrote:That looks like a great idea. Just wondering if the remaining stock framerail piece will be rigid enough with the support structure removed?
I think it will be. You can't see them in that photo, but on the outside, back at the firewall I have some diagonals from the cage to the frame rail, and I could add some diagonals on the inside up front.

Doug Rahn- BBF CONTRIBUTOR

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Re: Maybe change the front while working on the back!
how much weight do you think it'd drop? the factory tin dont weigh out too fast.

cool40- BBF CONTRIBUTOR

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Location: south of music city
Re: Maybe change the front while working on the back!
cool40 wrote:how much weight do you think it'd drop? the factory tin don't weigh out too fast.
As for the tins. the biggest will be the radiator core support and the strut towers. Towers are really thick steel, somewhere between .125" and .180" thick. But the front bumper cover assembly will be the biggest lost. When all is said and done, I estimate we will lose almost 150 lbs off the front, maybe more. The new brakes alone will be 30 lbs lighter than what I have now. The fiberglass nose from VFN weighs 25 lbs. When I start on this, I'm going to weigh everything I take off and what I put back on and see what we get.

Doug Rahn- BBF CONTRIBUTOR

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Re: Maybe change the front while working on the back!
Doug,
Just another idea to throw out there. I like idea on the supports for keeping your current struts. Go ahead and get rid of the lower frame rails and put in some round tube. My car was built at first with the lower frame rails there and with round tube. Then they removed the oem rails later later. The rules for the class the builder was running said you had to have stock front frame rails, but there was nothing that said the suspension had to attach to them. Later, the rules were relaxed and they removed them and the same inner front sheet metal you want gone. They left the core support, wish it was gone, but they wanted something to bolt the stock front nose and sheet metal too.
My car was built with Strange struts, but your idea above would work with a round tube lower and the tubing would not cost too much.
I still have the front frame rails from when they chopped them out. AT LEAST 35 lbs each!
Couple of pics of the car under construction with all that crap in place:


now, with oem frame rails removed:
forgive the BBC, that was the builder's deal:

More pics of the build and details in these albums:
http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/dgcole01/t%20bird/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ32
http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/dgcole01/TBird%20at%20Home/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ32
http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/dgcole01/T%20Bird%20mock%20up/
Just another idea to throw out there. I like idea on the supports for keeping your current struts. Go ahead and get rid of the lower frame rails and put in some round tube. My car was built at first with the lower frame rails there and with round tube. Then they removed the oem rails later later. The rules for the class the builder was running said you had to have stock front frame rails, but there was nothing that said the suspension had to attach to them. Later, the rules were relaxed and they removed them and the same inner front sheet metal you want gone. They left the core support, wish it was gone, but they wanted something to bolt the stock front nose and sheet metal too.
My car was built with Strange struts, but your idea above would work with a round tube lower and the tubing would not cost too much.
I still have the front frame rails from when they chopped them out. AT LEAST 35 lbs each!
Couple of pics of the car under construction with all that crap in place:


now, with oem frame rails removed:
forgive the BBC, that was the builder's deal:

More pics of the build and details in these albums:
http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/dgcole01/t%20bird/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ32
http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/dgcole01/TBird%20at%20Home/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ32
http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/dgcole01/T%20Bird%20mock%20up/

David Cole- BBF CONTRIBUTOR

- Posts: 439
Join date: 2009-08-06
Location: Gadsden, Al

Re: Maybe change the front while working on the back!
looks great Doug , but why the change ? why dont you just build a chassis car ?
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bruno- Moderator

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Re: Maybe change the front while working on the back!
Thanks David! That thought had crossed my mind
, but would add considerable cost to it
. Right now I can do this for under $1000, not including the brakes. With the back half change and then using round tube on the front, I might as well do a whole round tube chassis.
. Right now I can do this for under $1000, not including the brakes. With the back half change and then using round tube on the front, I might as well do a whole round tube chassis.
Doug Rahn- BBF CONTRIBUTOR

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Re: Maybe change the front while working on the back!
bruno wrote:looks great Doug , but why the change ? why dont you just build a chassis car ?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I could, but then I couldn't retire from Gulfstream.

Doug Rahn- BBF CONTRIBUTOR

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Re: Maybe change the front while working on the back!
Doug Rahn wrote:bruno wrote:looks great Doug , but why the change ? why dont you just build a chassis car ?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I could, but then I couldn't retire from Gulfstream.
lol ...... i just figured it wouldnt be much more ... your backhalfing the car to ???right ....
_________________
THXS TO ALL MY SPONSORS
www.bfevansraceparts.com
www.evansracingengines.com
JET BOAT BOB
DAN " THE STICKER MAN " HOBBS ...AKA >>>> 56TBIRD

bruno- Moderator

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Location: MILLBROOK , AL.

Re: Maybe change the front while working on the back!
bruno wrote:Doug Rahn wrote:bruno wrote:looks great Doug , but why the change ? why dont you just build a chassis car ?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I could, but then I couldn't retire from Gulfstream.
lol ...... i just figured it wouldnt be much more ... your backhalfing the car to ???right ....
Yes I am. Not including the tires and wheels I've already bought, the back half is about $5500 (frame rails, 4 links, anti roll, coilovers, new 9" rear and axles). I'm reusing my center section and Wilwood brakes. Then the cost of the changes to the back of the cage struts and x bars.

Doug Rahn- BBF CONTRIBUTOR

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Re: Maybe change the front while working on the back!
Doug,
Look at the CC plates from Skinny Kid or others that deal with that Mustang specific stuff. No need to get "that" plate for the top of the struts. Just source your own spherical bearing up there and fix the top of the struts in one location...
A few years ago there was a guy on Racingjunk that made a tube front for a Fox chassis. Basically chop off from the firewall forward and weld his stuff on. It used the factory style k-members and all... The "new" frame rails welded into the old raisl location. You can then tie them into the cage from the inside fairly easily too.
I've looked at doing this to mine a few times. I may chop off from the strut tower forward one day to lose a few pounds. That little bit is easy...
Look at the CC plates from Skinny Kid or others that deal with that Mustang specific stuff. No need to get "that" plate for the top of the struts. Just source your own spherical bearing up there and fix the top of the struts in one location...
A few years ago there was a guy on Racingjunk that made a tube front for a Fox chassis. Basically chop off from the firewall forward and weld his stuff on. It used the factory style k-members and all... The "new" frame rails welded into the old raisl location. You can then tie them into the cage from the inside fairly easily too.
I've looked at doing this to mine a few times. I may chop off from the strut tower forward one day to lose a few pounds. That little bit is easy...

jbozzelle- Posts: 2174
Join date: 2009-08-10
Age: 37
Location: New Orleans
Re: Maybe change the front while working on the back!
You might not really loose all that much weight from cutting out the inner fender panels/radiator support/strut towers after you factor in the extra tubing you will be putting back in up front to support the strut tops. Also you probably will need to add a few more bars to the drawing supporting the strut top. Depending on where the front motor plate falls it might be an idea to install an upright at that point to pull double duty as (A) a motor plate mounting point (vs using only the main frame rail) and (B) another strut bar/top support.
The big weight reduction will probably be the 'glass nose if you use real small tubing for the front end tree/mount assembly.
The big weight reduction will probably be the 'glass nose if you use real small tubing for the front end tree/mount assembly.

DILLIGASDAVE- Posts: 1176
Join date: 2009-08-07
Location: Texas. pronounced "texASS"
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