Still killing the tires!!!!

Before I broke the 557, I took the car to a local chassis shop. Had it scaled, he made some tweaking with the valving on the shocks, found and corrected a binding issue with the anti roll bar, had me buy a new set of tires, and told me to try that and we would go from there. 1st pass blew the tires off so bad I was heading towards the other lane. That was the last pass for the 557. Put the 600hp 514 back in to bracket race with until we get the new motor built and thought I would be fine with this motor but the car is still not happy! The vid below is with the new qa1 double adjustables and brand new 3055s tires at 12 psi. Getting frusturated ...

sometimes less power can make it worse.

air psi? looks low to me. it realy dont look bad to me.if you dead hook it it'll slow down.............

It's def not any better than the 557 but I don't feel that it will be very good with next motor either. I know I'm asking for alot out of the car with BB torque, off set bias, heavy weight, and a 10.5 tire but I see it done every weekend. I have a buddy with a P51 800+ hp deal on bone stock suspension other than some Lakewood 50/50's with an almost identical set up that launches beautifully and consistently.

12 psi

That was a slow 6.80's 1.5's 60ft pass. That tire shouldn't look like that IMO.

To me, it looks like you could still use more air pressure. The tires were leaving cupping marks on the track. It also looks like the front suspension is too stiff, and could use more travel. On a stock style suspension car, 6" of front end travel is recommended until wheelstanding becomes an issue. If you have adjustable front struts, I would loosen them up and see what happens. Keep using the slow motion video; it's an excellent tuning tool.

Ken

the way that tire looks i'd put some air in it. the hit dont look that hard,limiters on the frontend?

soupbean wrote:That was a slow 6.80's 1.5's 60ft pass. That tire shouldn't look like that IMO.

try another tire gauge i bought new tires last year cuz of a junk gauge.

cool40 wrote:the way that tire looks i'd put some air in it. the hit dont look that hard,limiters on the frontend?

If I put more air, it spins like it's on ice. I took the limiters off. That is full extension of the front shocks. Single adjustable coil overs.

cool40 wrote:

soupbean wrote:That was a slow 6.80's 1.5's 60ft pass. That tire shouldn't look like that IMO.

try another tire gauge i bought new tires last year cuz of a junk gauge.

I have two gauges LOL. and check mine against pit neighbors. I thought of that too

Kens429 wrote:To me, it looks like you could still use more air pressure. The tires were leaving cupping marks on the track. It also looks like the front suspension is too stiff, and could use more travel. On a stock style suspension car, 6" of front end travel is recommended until wheelstanding becomes an issue. If you have adjustable front struts, I would loosen them up and see what happens. Keep using the slow motion video; it's an excellent tuning tool.

Ken

I tried full loose as well. I've turned those knobs every which way they can go. Even tried what wouldn't make sense to see what would happen

dfree383 wrote:whos rear suspension parts are you using? what have you done to the rear and front suspension?

WHO'S parts, I'm not exactly sure, I have all tubular stuff front and rear, single adjustable (12 adjustments) coil overs in the front with 200 lb QA1 springs, adjustable rear uppers, anti roll bar, rear housing mount QA1 double adjustables with 110 lb springs, stock mounting locations on a 9 in aftermarket housing.

soupbean wrote:

Kens429 wrote:To me, it looks like you could still use more air pressure. The tires were leaving cupping marks on the track. It also looks like the front suspension is too stiff, and could use more travel. On a stock style suspension car, 6" of front end travel is recommended until wheelstanding becomes an issue. If you have adjustable front struts, I would loosen them up and see what happens. Keep using the slow motion video; it's an excellent tuning tool.

Ken

I tried full loose as well. I've turned those knobs every which way they can go. Even tried what would make sense to see what would happen

Do you have front control arms with bushings? I had a Capri that had new rubber bushings that would bind as they would go through their range of motion. I took the control arms out and put never seize on all friction surfaces, then tightened the control arm bolts until they started to drag, then backed them off just a shade. For safety, we double nutted the bolts and put some epoxy on the threads behind the nuts. This simple change gave me 3' more front end travel. Stay full loose on the shocks until wheelstands are a problem. You need the weight transfer as quickly as possible!

As long as the tires are cupping, you are not maximizing the tire's potential. I recently went through this very same problem with the Falcon. I ended up around 12 3/4 psi with a Moroso gauge, on a 9X30 Hoosier D07. BTW I could not get the MT 10.5X29.5 tires to hook worth a crap no matter what I did. Went back to the Hoosiers and got my 2 TENTHS of 60 ft. back.

Ken

Kens429 wrote:

soupbean wrote:

Kens429 wrote:To me, it looks like you could still use more air pressure. The tires were leaving cupping marks on the track. It also looks like the front suspension is too stiff, and could use more travel. On a stock style suspension car, 6" of front end travel is recommended until wheelstanding becomes an issue. If you have adjustable front struts, I would loosen them up and see what happens. Keep using the slow motion video; it's an excellent tuning tool.

Ken

I tried full loose as well. I've turned those knobs every which way they can go. Even tried what would make sense to see what would happen

Do you have front control arms with bushings? I had a Capri that had new rubber bushings that would bind as they would go through their range of motion. I took the control arms out and put never seize on all friction surfaces, then tightened the control arm bolts until they started to drag, then backed them off just a shade. For safety, we double nutted the bolts and put some epoxy on the threads behind the nuts. This simple change gave me 3' more front end travel. Stay full loose on the shocks until wheelstands are a problem. You need the weight transfer as quickly as possible!

As long as the tires are cupping, you are not maximizing the tire's potential. I recently went through this very same problem with the Falcon. I ended up around 12 3/4 psi with a Moroso gauge, on a 9X30 Hoosier D07. BTW I could not get the MT 10.5X29.5 tires to hook worth a crap no matter what I did. Went back to the Hoosiers and got my 2 TENTHS of 60 ft. back.

Ken

It has an AJE tubular k member with tubular control arms. Wow. 2 tenths 60 from a tire change. The MT's didn't agree with you at all did they...

soupbean wrote:

dfree383 wrote:whos rear suspension parts are you using? what have you done to the rear and front suspension?

WHO'S parts, I'm not exactly sure, I have all tubular stuff front and rear, single adjustable (12 adjustments) coil overs in the front with 200 lb QA1 springs, adjustable rear uppers, anti roll bar, rear housing mount QA1 double adjustables with 110 lb springs, stock mounting locations on a 9 in aftermarket housing.

I was going to convert to coil overs until the guys at Calvert Racing told me that we couldn't put a tall enough spring on the car to effectivly transfer the weight of the big block. I wonder if a taller front spring would help.

Ken

No, they didn't. I think I may have got a set that Jegs had laying in the back corner of the wharehouse for 5 years. It could be that it is a stick car, but other guys with sticks use them. Don't care anymore, I'm staying with my Hoosiers. They got me to 1.34 60 fts. @ 3800 lbs; best with the MT's was 1.53!

Ken

It's definitely not dead-hooking on the initial hit, but it's not a flat-out spin either. Just looks to me like a launch with some amount of initial wheel-speed (aka controlled slip).

And the sidewall over-wadding looks to me to be more from low air pressure, and less from being "hit" too hard by engine torque/suspension leverage violence. And even though there is a decent amount of rear suspension separation distance happening at the initial hit, the separation isn't happening at a speed that's too fast/ violent (no sidewall or shock bounce-bounce is repeatedly happening). I would try a little more air pressure, and maybe test the rear extension (rebound) valving both a little tighter and a little looser (depending on how tight it is now) on back to back passes.

Remember that when I'm suggesting "more air pressure" I'm not talking about a big jump like 2-5 pounds. I'm talking about small increases in air pressure each pass (like say 1/4 pound jumps each time). It's the only way to sneak up on the ideal setting without mistakenly blasting past it like you can with big jumps in pressure.

And the 200lb front spring might be a little too stiff and possibly hampering nose/tail weight transfer some. It might also be an idea to pull the front struts and check them to make sure their valving adjustment still works and has an adjustable effect on the strut extension speed. Struts that are dead players are pretty much useless when trying to dial in a drag car.

And unfortunately it's always possible that your car just might not like M/T's (or the current batch of them anyway). Last year on one guy's big tire car we went testing with 3 brands of slicks one night (M/T, Hoosier, & Goodyear). With the M/T's the car flat-out spun it's fukin nutts off the instant the trans-brake was released. The Goodyears initally tried to hook with some amount of desired wheel-speed for only about 5 feet, but then the wheel-speed would get out of control in an instant and work right into runaway spin after 5 feet out. The Hoosiers on the other hand worked like magic from the start. They hooked with at/around the correct amount of desired wheel-speed that the car needed, with the nose in the air a little at the same time. The funny thing is in the past this car used to like Goodyears.

DILLIGASDAVE wrote:It's definitely not dead-hooking on the initial hit, but it's not a flat-out spin either. Just looks to me like a launch with some amount of initial wheel-speed (aka controlled slip).

And the sidewall over-wadding looks to me to be more from low air pressure, and less from being "hit" too hard by engine torque/suspension leverage violence. And even though there is a decent amount of rear suspension separation distance happening at the initial hit, the separation isn't happening at a speed that's too fast/ violent (no sidewall or shock bounce-bounce is repeatedly happening). I would try a little more air pressure, and maybe test the rear extension (rebound) valving both a little tighter and a little looser (depending on how tight it is now) on back to back passes.

Remember that when I'm suggesting "more air pressure" I'm not talking about a big jump like 2-5 pounds. I'm talking about small increases in air pressure each pass (like say 1/4 pound jumps each time). It's the only way to sneak up on the ideal setting without mistakenly blasting past it like you can with big jumps in pressure.

And the 200lb front spring might be a little too stiff and possibly hampering nose/tail weight transfer some. It might also be an idea to pull the front struts and check them to make sure their valving adjustment still works and has an adjustable effect on the strut extension speed. Struts that are dead players are pretty much useless when trying to dial in a drag car.

And unfortunately it's always possible that your car just might not like M/T's (or the current batch of them anyway). Last year on one guy's big tire car we went testing with 3 brands of slicks one night (M/T, Hoosier, & Goodyear). With the M/T's the car flat-out spun it's fukin nutts off the instant the trans-brake was released. The Goodyears initally tried to hook with some amount of desired wheel-speed for only about 5 feet, but then the wheel-speed would get out of control in an instant and work right into runaway spin after 5 feet out. The Hoosiers on the other hand worked like magic from the start. They hooked with at/around the correct amount of desired wheel-speed that the car needed, with the nose in the air a little at the same time. The funny thing is in the past this car used to like Goodyears.

I was going to mention the front springs seem stiff, I'd try 150-175s.

Maybe I can help....

yellowhorse7 wrote:Maybe I can help....

I heard the name Team Z today. Is that you? Are you local?

soupbean wrote:

yellowhorse7 wrote:Maybe I can help....

I heard the name Team Z today. Is that you? Are you local?

Lol. I am NOT Team Z....just a supporter of Dave's (owner). I'm in Fl.

Let's start with the basics.....

1. Front spring is wrong. I'd bet money it would like a 150, 14" spring

2. Front Ride height is too high. Lower it down to where you can only get your thumb in between the tire and the fender. We will discuss straps/limiters later. Travel can be your friend or your enemy, depending on the A/S value.

3. Air pressure may be too low but I doubt it. You seem right in the park. Don't remember reading it but that car needs a tube and a stiff wall tire IMO

4. Convertor LOOKS dead wrong. Wheel speed is you friend and it looks as if there isn't enough. The slow motion vid kinda hides it though. How tall is the rear gear?

5. Where is the IC and the A/S? The A/S number, in most cases (not all) needs to be as close to 100% as possible, maybe slightly over. And too long of an IC and the car will act as if it's 100 feet long, meaning that it won't transfer the weight

6. Where are the shock setting on the rear DA's? Those may be the source of your issue as well


lemme know and I'll try and help