Lucky catch

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Lucky catch

Post  bbf-falcon on January 2nd 2014, 12:16 am

Was pulling the girdles on the engine today in preparation for installing 7/16 pushrods on the exhaust side. Was doing a routine check of the roller rockers . They all rolled and looked good visually. I happened to notice something catch my eyes in a plugged hole in bottom of head. Got out the magnet and pulled out a roller needle from a rocker from the hole. After looking the rockers over AGAIN for quite awhile, I found this. I've never seen this happen before on a high end rocker . The needle housing is busted just enough to let the bearings out. These rockers have less than 15 passes. As you can se they are Crane Gold.



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Re: Lucky catch

Post  LivermoreDave on January 2nd 2014, 12:43 am

That's what you get for being so through ..... a lucky catch! ...  bounce  ...

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Re: Lucky catch

Post  Wheelie58 on January 2nd 2014, 10:10 am

A great example of the need for routine inspections. I have considered epoxying small magnets near the drainbacks in the heads.
Same goes for the shaft guys. A buddy with a C head deal wiped out a new Titan pump and bearings due to a broken "C" clip from a rocker that made it to the pump.
Good that you caught it!

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Re: Lucky catch

Post  Paul Kane on January 2nd 2014, 2:03 pm

You said the rockers have just 15 passes, but that looks like a 2nd Gen rocker arm in the picture (many years old). Is it a brand new old stock Gen 2?  Or is it brand new current production?

There can be flukes, nothing is absolute, and sometimes good parts break as well.  And this could certainly be the case in your experience.  So before I dare post "it was just a matter of time," please remove a circlip and read the side of a non-destroyed bearing cage....
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Re: Lucky catch

Post  bbf-falcon on January 2nd 2014, 4:53 pm

I didnt state when they were purchased,I guess I should have stated that they were UNused with only a few passes. Regardless Paul,it had to have have had a defect .geez Rolling Eyes 

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Re: Lucky catch

Post  Paul Kane on January 2nd 2014, 5:16 pm

bbf-falcon wrote:I didnt state when they were purchased,I guess I should have stated that they were UNused with only a few passes. Regardless Paul,it had to have have had a defect .geez Rolling Eyes 
Whoa, what's with the attitude?   Shocked  I just asked a couple of questions for clarification.
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Re: Lucky catch

Post  DanH on January 3rd 2014, 2:17 am

Paul , Ive seen Crane bearing breakage on the 1.73 and 1.70 (on a BBC).
I'll get a bearing number and edit this post with it.
 
my thoughts are some company(S) use offshore junk.  save a dollar for them , end user pays big

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Re: Lucky catch

Post  bbf-falcon on January 3rd 2014, 10:22 am

When parts for rockers and lifters are built in mass production it would be hard for QA to check everything. Probably a lot of truth in your thread too Dan. Smile 

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Re: Lucky catch

Post  61coon on January 3rd 2014, 11:01 am

That is a good catch Rick! Sometimes things break. We had a Harland sharp rocker let go once and it wasn't pretty... A good routine maintenance plan is a must!
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Re: Lucky catch

Post  Lem Evans on January 3rd 2014, 11:05 am

I've had good luck with the Crane rockers with the clips on the shaft ends...but...if any of you guys have the ones w/o the clips on the shaft you better look them over. They have a VERY high failure rate. This would include a few blue [FRPP] and about all of the black [tfs] rockers that were sourced from Crane several years ago.

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Re: Lucky catch

Post  Paul Kane on January 3rd 2014, 1:46 pm

DanH wrote:Paul , Ive seen Crane bearing breakage on the 1.73 and 1.70 (on a BBC).
I'll get a bearing number and edit this post with it.
Thanks but now that it has been confirmed that the rockers in this thread are indeed Gen 2 rockers, I no longer need the part number on the side of the bearing cage as I already know what it is/which bearings they are. And it definitely falls under my point above that "sometimes good parts break as well," (whatever the root cause for the actual failure).

DanH wrote:my thoughts are some company(S) use offshore junk.  save a dollar for them , end user pays big
What few people know about the American rocker arm industry today they would find downright shocking. And I'm not necessarily talking about your point of "offshore," I'm referring to what goes on here on American soil.  Thanks to loosened international trade, manufacturing in third world countries, and many businesses putting profit before anything else (sometimes as a need to survive), "Made in America" doesn't automatically equate to "quality" as much as it used to.  What I heard and that came from a long time bearing supplier to Crane raised my eyebrows and gave me pause...but in regards to the failure pictured here I stopped short of stating, "it was just a matter of time" without first learning of the bearing number (or lack thereof) on the cage pressed into a (possibly) current Gen 3 rocker arm. But getting back to American rocker arm companies in general and the manufacturing practices of some of them...well...it ain't just crane and I'm not going to get into all of that here and now (or possibly ever).

Incidentally, the word "offshore" seems to have become synonymous with "poor quality," and that's not really an accurate depiction.  There may still be a lot of inferior performance parts out there, and I would guess that there is still more questionable performance V8 hardware being offered from offshore than there is acceptable hardware. But it's also true that there is crap hardware made stateside today, though in lower percentages than the offshore manufacturing. But those percentages of good-to-bad in both manufacturing locales (U.S. vs. abroad) are going through some significant fluctuation.

Lem Evans wrote:I've had good luck with the Crane rockers with the clips on the shaft ends...but...if any of you guys have the ones w/o the clips on the shaft you better look them over. They have a VERY high failure rate. This would include a few blue [FRPP] and about all of the black [tfs] rockers that were sourced from Crane several years ago.
You are referring to the rocker arms with what are known as "self-centering trunnions."  It has proven way too difficult for the self-centering trunnions to be fail-proof in any of the stud rockers in which they have been offered, and that's regardless of manufacturer. In order for the self-centering trunnions to stay in place and not "walk" the bearings out of their respective bores (from the rocker arm articulation during engine operation), the bearing bores must meet both a very tight roundness tolerance of 0.0000"-0.0005" and also a very exact diameter tolerance in order to provide the correct press-fit/bearing preload. Thus far, this has been proven too difficult to still be cost effective since a high number of rockers in a typical rocker production run don't meet the specs and that affects the cost of making a rocker arm with a reliable self-centering trunnion. Add to this canted valve trains and resulting side-loading and all bets are off. It's easier (and more wise) to just put a circlip on each end of the trunnion, have a cost effective/reliable rocker arm and call it a day.
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Re: Lucky catch

Post  TRUKPULR on January 3rd 2014, 2:31 pm

bbf-falcon wrote:I didnt state when they were purchased,I guess I should have stated that they were UNused with only a few passes. Regardless Paul,it had to have have had a defect .geez Rolling Eyes 

Post what the bearing number is I have a set of Gold cranes that I bought all new bearings for and never got around to installing them all so I have say 30 or so New bearings still in the boxes..


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Re: Lucky catch

Post  whitefield on January 3rd 2014, 2:56 pm

61coon wrote:That is a good catch Rick! Sometimes things break. We had a Harland sharp rocker let go once and it wasn't pretty... A good routine maintenance plan is a must!

Good eyes Rick ! Cool 

I ran Crane years ago on my small block junk never had an any problems other than being noisy in a street vehicle .
Harland sharp are good people I had a rocker arm to go down two years ago and they warranted them out no questions ask. I also had another one to go down this season and they sent me a complete new set and I sent them my old ones and 165.00 bucks. they were 5 years old.
I have Lunati on my big block . Has anyone had any issues with them ?

Sorry Rick not trying to high jack your thread ! After seeing the pics and reading all of the post I had to ask about the lunati rocker arms.












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Re: Lucky catch

Post  whatbumper on January 3rd 2014, 2:56 pm

Good catch but I would have never considered that as a high end rocker.

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Re: Lucky catch

Post  TRUKPULR on January 3rd 2014, 6:42 pm

I went out to the shop and I have 20 of those bearing still in the boxes if you need some .



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Re: Lucky catch

Post  Larry T on January 3rd 2014, 9:29 pm

yes I have had problems with the Lunati and ford brand rockers mostly Lunati.i have started replacing them with the Harland sharp rockers.no problems yet except for some clearancing in the trunnion area were they hit the top edge of the spring.

for the new motor I am building I was considering the comp cams Next gen Ultra-Gold ARC rockers but the listing on their web page says 351c and dosent say 429/460 as it did earlier.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=19045-16&Category_Code=

I have had to tare down 3 motors because of the rockers coming apart and I can tell ya it wasn't from the lack of maintenance.if a rocker cant take at least five 1/8th mile hits with out coming apart theirs a problem.

so my question is who makes the better rocker?
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Re: Lucky catch

Post  whitefield on January 3rd 2014, 9:37 pm

Larry T wrote:yes I have had problems with the Lunati and ford brand rockers mostly Lunati.i have started replacing them with the Harland sharp rockers.no problems yet except for some clearancing in the trunnion area were they hit the top edge of the spring.

for the new motor I am building I was considering the comp cams  Next gen Ultra-Gold ARC rockers but the listing on their web page says 351c and dosent say 429/460 as it did earlier.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=19045-16&Category_Code=

I have had to tare down 3 motors because of the rockers coming apart and I can tell ya it wasn't from the lack of maintenance.if a rocker cant take at least five 1/8th mile hits with out coming apart theirs a problem.

so my question is who makes the better rocker?

The lunati are junk ! That's my luck !

How old we're or when did you purchase your Lunati rocker arms ?
I just bought mine last year !
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Re: Lucky catch

Post  Larry T on January 3rd 2014, 9:51 pm

the lunati rockers were in my first 552 motor several years back.the ford brand rockers were in my second motor 572 but survived better and just replaced them as needed.last year I started using the Harland sharp rockers replacing the ford brand.
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Re: Lucky catch

Post  whitefield on January 3rd 2014, 10:01 pm

Larry T wrote:the lunati rockers were in my first 552 motor several years back.the ford brand rockers were in my second motor 572 but survived better and just replaced them as needed.last year I started using the Harland sharp rockers replacing the ford brand.

Thanks for the info. I use Harland sharp on my small block car , on the big block I will keep,a eye on and replace as need with Harland sharps.
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Re: Lucky catch

Post  richter69 on January 3rd 2014, 10:26 pm

I never had issues w my blue Lunati's, the stainless Crower are the tits........
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Re: Lucky catch

Post  David Cole on January 3rd 2014, 11:25 pm

Larry T wrote:
for the new motor I am building I was considering the comp cams  Next gen Ultra-Gold ARC rockers but the listing on their web page says 351c and dosent say 429/460 as it did earlier.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=19045-16&Category_Code=
....     so my question is who makes the better rocker?

Don't know about the ARC series Ultra's from Comp, but I got bit with the Comp Ultra Golds.   30 passes with the stock supplied TFS A460 springs on a 588.  Close inspection looked like a stress crack started where they pressed the pushrod cup in.   Whole back half of the rocker just snapped off.  





I replaced them with a set of Crower SS and no problems EVER.   Got another set on the current 598.  If you want the BEST stud mount rocker arm this is it.
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Re: Lucky catch

Post  61coon on January 4th 2014, 12:16 am

Larry T wrote:yes I have had problems with the Lunati and ford brand rockers mostly Lunati.i have started replacing them with the Harland sharp rockers.no problems yet except for some clearancing in the trunnion area were they hit the top edge of the spring.

for the new motor I am building I was considering the comp cams  Next gen Ultra-Gold ARC rockers but the listing on their web page says 351c and dosent say 429/460 as it did earlier.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=19045-16&Category_Code=

I have had to tare down 3 motors because of the rockers coming apart and I can tell ya it wasn't from the lack of maintenance.if a rocker cant take at least five 1/8th mile hits with out coming apart theirs a problem.

so my question is who makes the better rocker?




I just picked a set of them and I'm gonna try those myself on my junk this year....
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Re: Lucky catch

Post  cool40 on January 4th 2014, 12:20 am

another vote for Crower  afro  i dont even know how many passes i put on the set in my 526.
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Re: Lucky catch

Post  Larry T on January 4th 2014, 12:38 am



I replaced them with a set of Crower SS and no problems EVER.   Got another set on the current 598.  If you want the BEST stud mount rocker arm this is it.
[/quote]


unless I change my mind the crower ss is the direction im going. Wink 
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Re: Lucky catch

Post  bbf-falcon on January 4th 2014, 12:31 pm

What is the difference between them other than price,that makes per say a Crower better than lets say a crane or a lunati?

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