Pump Gas 523ci Fitech EFI 2x4 Dual Quad Build..PC manifiold pic's..

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Pump Gas 523ci Fitech EFI 2x4 Dual Quad Build..PC manifiold pic's..

Post  nascar429 on August 13th 2017, 10:01 am

Starting this build for a friend in about 3 weeks..need some help with camshaft and any build recommmendations please..

523ci pump gas street/strip build..
4.300x4.400 bore.
A429 ford motorsport CJ heads 2.25 1.76 valves..
10.9 top 1 comp
2 fitech throttle body's rated 1200hp
Cheapo Pro Comp Dual Qual manifold.. not my choice..
twin 3" inch magnaflow straight throughs..to the rear bumper
Tri-y headers 2" inch primary's to 2 1/4" intermediate pipes with 3"inch collector..
have another set to try on the dyno same but modified 2" inch - 2 1/2" inch - 3 1/2" collector..
powerglide or c6.. he hasn't got it yet will run a converter that flashes 4300 4500rpm in either.
3.9 gears. 28 tire 3650lb car.
He would like to see this thing make 700HP.. running mid 10's in the quarter..with reasonable streetability..

Would like either a big flat tappet or streetable solid roller not over .700" lift..

I have a 264 270 @ .050 662 649 lift 108 lobe sep solid flat tappet...but would rather spend the money on the RIGHT cam for the job..
 

Any thoughts on a camshaft for this combo?

I'll post up some flow figures for the heads if i can..




Last edited by nascar429 on August 16th 2017, 5:57 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Pump Gas 523ci Fitech EFI 2x4 Dual Quad Build..PC manifiold pic's..

Post  Straubtech on August 14th 2017, 9:48 am

I'd put a roller in it for longevity. I/E and stroke will warrant around an 8 to 10 degree split.

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Re: Pump Gas 523ci Fitech EFI 2x4 Dual Quad Build..PC manifiold pic's..

Post  nascar429 on August 15th 2017, 10:51 pm

Straubtech wrote:I'd put a roller in it for longevity.   I/E and stroke will warrant around an 8 to 10 degree split.

Thanks Chris for the advice..

just for anybody who hasn't see the procomp manifold..big open plenum hopefully its not a dog.. ill be dynoing this engine so we will see if it's workable.



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Re: Pump Gas 523ci Fitech EFI 2x4 Dual Quad Build..PC manifiold pic's..

Post  BBFTorino on August 16th 2017, 1:22 am

That Chinese intake manifold just doesn't look good. There is no distribution qualities to it like "regular" intakes have....its just a big open space inside!!
The very short intake ports look terrible.

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Re: Pump Gas 523ci Fitech EFI 2x4 Dual Quad Build..PC manifiold pic's..

Post  nascar429 on August 16th 2017, 1:33 am

BBFTorino wrote:That Chinese intake manifold just doesn't look good. There is no distribution qualities to it like "regular" intakes have....its just a big open space inside!!
The very short intake ports look terrible.

Yep i agree not sure how it's going to work at all!...I originally had a ported victor or a TFS mafia manifold and Domi for this build.. but he changed direction on me with the injection..so it is what it is..
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Re: Pump Gas 523ci Fitech EFI 2x4 Dual Quad Build..PC manifiold pic's..

Post  Carl on August 16th 2017, 9:03 am

Strange the guy has the big $$$ for dual EFI, but not for a quality intake? He'd be far better off with a blue thunder dual quad and carbs.

Nothing wrong with a flat tappet, and in my opinion nothing more durable.


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Re: Pump Gas 523ci Fitech EFI 2x4 Dual Quad Build..PC manifiold pic's..

Post  nascar429 on August 16th 2017, 10:14 am

Carl wrote:Strange the guy has the big $$$ for dual EFI, but not for a quality intake?  He'd be far better off with a blue thunder dual quad and carbs.

Nothing wrong with a flat tappet, and in my opinion nothing more durable.


.

Yes i agree a bluethunder would be my first choice too in a dual qual setup..seem hard to get now on your side of the world..purchase price, shipping, exchange rate etc would be close to $1200 landed..then a pro to port it here in Australia.. expensive manifold..so he went with the easy cheap option..though it could bite him in the butt if the PC is a lemon.
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Re: Pump Gas 523ci Fitech EFI 2x4 Dual Quad Build..PC manifiold pic's..

Post  jasonf on August 16th 2017, 10:37 am

nascar429 wrote:

 Yes i agree a bluethunder would be my first choice too in a dual qual setup..seem hard to get now on your side of the world..purchase price, shipping, exchange rate etc would be close to $1200 landed..then a pro to port it here in Australia.. expensive manifold..so he went with the easy cheap option..though it could bite him in the butt if the PC is a lemon.

Then he will blame you saying you built him a dog and you don't know what you are doing... Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Pump Gas 523ci Fitech EFI 2x4 Dual Quad Build..PC manifiold pic's..

Post  nascar429 on August 16th 2017, 10:49 am

jasonf wrote:
nascar429 wrote:

 Yes i agree a bluethunder would be my first choice too in a dual qual setup..seem hard to get now on your side of the world..purchase price, shipping, exchange rate etc would be close to $1200 landed..then a pro to port it here in Australia.. expensive manifold..so he went with the easy cheap option..though it could bite him in the butt if the PC is a lemon.

Then he will blame you saying you built him a dog and you don't know what you are doing... Evil or Very Mad

Haha..i understand your thinking he is a close friend..i only build engines.. maybe one a year for friends not for profit..I gave him a choice of a ported Victor or a TFS mafia manifold and Domi i have here..but he was convinced the injection was the way to go so it was his decision..i was surprised when he went ahead and bought the twin injection setup.
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Re: Pump Gas 523ci Fitech EFI 2x4 Dual Quad Build..PC manifiold pic's..

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on August 16th 2017, 7:34 pm

Shame he chose to use EFI throttle bodies instead of actual multiport injectors. I can understand the reason why if he wants to hide the EFI under the air cleaner.

Having talked to several professional tuners there are issues with Throttle body fuel injection. The main issue is fuel distribution, you can end up with good O2 readings in the collector but if you ran 8 O2 sensors you would find there is a large variance cyl to cyl. Yes I know OEMs did it that way for years. The difference was in the development of placing the injectors above the throttle body and in the actual ecu programming. They delivered a highly atomized fuel charge in the top of the air flow. Injecting fuel in the venturi section does not assure proper atomization of fuel and air. It will not work like a carb!! Yes this type of injection systems get rave reviews because 90% of the users are looking for something they can bolt on and go. There is always a quirk that shows up, it maybe idle issues, cold or hot start problems, even seen some with drivability issues under acceleration or stumbling on decel. These systems are not the joy they are portrayed to be.

Then add to the situation with a shoe box intake. If you are not gray headed now you will be by the time it is running correctly.
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Re: Pump Gas 523ci Fitech EFI 2x4 Dual Quad Build..PC manifiold pic's..

Post  boss9coupe on August 20th 2017, 4:34 am

SandHillsHillbilly wrote:Shame he chose to use EFI throttle bodies instead of actual multiport injectors. I can understand the reason why if he wants to hide the EFI under the air cleaner.

Having talked to several professional tuners there are issues with Throttle body fuel injection. The main issue is fuel distribution, you can end up with good O2 readings in the collector but if you ran 8 O2 sensors you would find there is a large variance cyl to cyl. Yes I know OEMs did it that way for years. The difference was in the development of placing the injectors above the throttle body and in the actual ecu programming. They delivered a highly atomized fuel charge in the top of the air flow. Injecting fuel in the venturi section does not assure proper atomization of fuel and air. It will not work like a carb!! Yes this type of injection systems get rave reviews because 90% of the users are looking for something they can bolt on and go. There is always a quirk that shows up, it maybe idle issues, cold or hot start problems, even seen some with drivability issues under acceleration or stumbling on decel. These systems are not the joy they are portrayed to be.

Then add to the situation with a shoe box intake. If you are not gray headed now you will be by the time it is running correctly.

Thanks for your thoughs i have to agree with you.. I fear it's going to be a nightmare he is convinced it's all going to be a cake walk reading too much internet propaganda...i've never played with injection before i'm a carb guy through and through.. he was originally going to run a single Domi on a Victor but then decided on a fitech throttle body for it.. ...i said to him my ported Victor or TFS mafia with a Domi will make more HP for sure on the dyno..in my opinion due to more airlfow, good distribution atomization etc etc.. of the tried and true Dominator carburettor..he wasn't happy about that and i think that's why he suddenly came up with the twin injection idea..i'll bring along a single plane and Domi to the dyno just incase the injection is a flop..which i fear it will be..
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