what I have and my 2-3yr plan

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what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  BlueBomber on April 24th 2018, 9:59 am

OK Guys, take it easy on me... I didn't build this engine. I do plan to tear it down once my shop is built to verify what I was told vs. reality. But armed only with knowledge of retail prices for parts and what I could see, I thought the price was too good to pass on. I bought this engine as it sat, unfired freshly rebuilt. The builder (amateur hobbyist, not unlike myself) wanted an affordable toy with weekend Father/Son track time in mind. Rockers were backed off once the cam was degreed, and haven't been tight again since...

A couple months after buying it, I found out I too would have a son. Of course, building a shop and starting a 1/8th mile toy took a far back seat. which brings us to present day 2yrs later, and soon I can move the pile-o-parts to my own shop.

I have offered the engine for sale locally, but it seems I am stuck with it and the notion of family time at the track is awful appealing since it will take me at least a couple years on my budget... (at 4-6yrs old I can be the slowest thing at the track and still be his hero...haha)

anyway....., engine is as follows:

Factory internal balance block .030 over (machined by local Purifoy racing engines)
Flat top pistons (unknown brand at this time, and I can't remember if he said forged or hyper...)
shot peened truck rods
0 decked (don't know how far piston is in hole)
don't know ring gap
D0VE-C heads (builder said "big valves" don't know until I pull the heads to check) (exhaust runner didn't show much more than clean-up)
Edelbrock Victor 4150 flange (builder said CJ size, heads matched.. don't know quality of match)
Harland Sharp rockers
Crane H-296-2 cam
unknown brand 3000rpm stall
truck flexplate builder said was balanced with rotating assembly
mechanical water pump
Holley mechanical fuel pump

I have a C6 truck trans that needs rebuilt (free)

My plan (eventually) is to pull the HFT cam and go with a solid FT, but I can't go too crazy since new pistons mean new balance and more money... The cheapest thing I have found to make a toy out of is an 85 F-150 (hard to beat $500 for a straight body with no rust in NE Texas...) which oughta be cheap enough to swap the 460 into..

Once I get the trans (probably use PATC) and rear built, heads ported, radiator, headers, carb, fuel plumbed...etc. my guess is "cheap" will become 10-12k... (I could probably get away with slapping on an 850DP, 1 3/4 shelf headers, basic performance rebuild on the trans and weld up the 8.8... but I been rednecking stuff long enough to know that cheap means fast-to-fail... I'm just trying to avoid the 15k mark by as much as possible..)

ScottyJ cut the cam for my F-250, and I would like to have him do my heads and cam for this, but $500-$600 shipping both ways doesn't look too inviting... My goals might change depending on the installed pistons but I would like to have around 600hp at the flywheel and run 93 pump gas.. figure the 4150 flange shouldn't kill that goal with the big 4150s available now days... truck oughta be 4000-4200 with me in it and street legal, C6 and 4.30 rear should be decent for the 1/8 and still be able to take to town for fill ups...

how far off am I with goals and aspirations? If I'm stupid, let me know before I spend any more money... haha


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Re: what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  rmcomprandy on April 24th 2018, 10:06 am

That engine will have a pretty high compression ratio for pump gasoline so, be aware.

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Re: what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  BlueBomber on April 24th 2018, 10:13 am

builder said 11.6:1, but yes Randy, that is the main reason I want to pull the heads and check the piston-deck height... also wouldn't a little more duration in a solid flat tappet lower my dynamic comp to reasonable (streetable) levels?
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Re: what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  BlueBomber on April 24th 2018, 10:54 am

Is having around 500hp/tq to the tires too lofty of a goal without big cubes?
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Re: what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  BBFTorino on April 24th 2018, 11:10 pm

You would have more fun and go faster in a smaller, lighter vehicle.

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Re: what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  stanger68 on April 24th 2018, 11:42 pm

BBFTorino wrote:You would have more fun and go faster in a smaller, lighter vehicle.

What he said. Theres no way I'd put that engine in that heavy truck unless its strictly street driven. Then its fun outrunning Camaro's with a heavy truck at the stoplight. If you plan on spending more time at the track , Save your money on the porting and run it as is in a much lighter vehicle. I'd put it in a Tempo before the truck. Spend some time in the classified you can find a decent rolling chassis with all the goodies like ignition, wheels, lexan windows etc. already on it for a few grand . You'll be saving money in the long run and faster.

Weight is the racers worst enemy.

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Re: what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  BlueBomber on April 25th 2018, 1:34 pm

Twice now my reply has sent me back to the login page... typing less this time...haha

If I was wanting to run in a specific class or something the weight would be the first thing addressed... I get that a maverick would be a better choice... the original builder had that very thing in mind.. but I won't be at the track like a racer... I'll be more of the "tourist at the poker table" if you will... getting spanked and grinning from ear to ear the whole time...

I've always ran what I had, which has always been a truck... never had a car, but surprised quite a few cars... I have the whole family/job/house thing to worry about now so I'm sure the itch will be there for street stuff, but I'm gonna try to limit those urges to play time at the track..

I would like to be in the mid 7s or faster.. that's why I set the goal of 600hp at the flywheel... I could probably put it in something right now and be a peppy 450 or so, but I would have the same detonation worries and less power...
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Re: what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  BlueBomber on April 25th 2018, 2:59 pm

basically, what I was hoping for with this post was to find out if more flow potential and correct cam would get me at or near my goal with the components I have... or if you can even get there with pump gas and only 466 cubes... I realize I don't have enough information about the components for an educated guess.. I will just go pull a head this weekend and measure the valves, and try to find info on the pistons.. (40miles down the road, in a friends shop...)

I know builders get a lot of questions that they would rather answer to a customer vs. an internet dreamer..

I know worked D0VEs can support those levels and more, but do I have stroker numbers in mind at a 600 goal? Will I have to spin the stock stroke higher than I want to in order reach that goal? If so my question is answered... slap it in anything and enjoy it until it needs a rebuild and THEN start from scratch with a bigger crank..





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Re: what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  stanger68 on April 25th 2018, 6:38 pm

What you put it in still doesn’t change my answer. I’d run it as is see wher you are then make me necessary upgrades to get your times down. It doesn’t make good sense financially speaking to buy a built engine then tear it apart and change it to something totally different. Especially if you’re on a tight budget. You could consider race gas octane additive or e-85. There are countless ways to get to where you want to be. I will leave that to the pros.


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Re: what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  BlueBomber on April 25th 2018, 7:41 pm

True, putting the old cart in front of the horse ain't I?
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Re: what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  BBFTorino on April 26th 2018, 1:15 am

Since its going in a heavy vehicle, torque should be your main goal......as much as you can make with the parts you have.
And then add a simple nitrous plate under the carb for even MORE torque!! Very Happy

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Re: what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  supervel45 on April 26th 2018, 6:56 am

stanger68 wrote:What you put it in still doesn’t change my answer. I’d run it as is see wher you are then make me necessary upgrades to get your times down. It doesn’t make good sense financially speaking to buy a built engine then tear it apart and change it to something totally different. Especially if you’re on a tight budget. You could consider race gas octane additive or e-85.  There are countless ways to get to where you want to be. I will leave that to the pros.


I agree.

Get it in the truck and optimize it as you go and the budget allows. You can also teach your son as you go along and learn and add to the experience of it by having him help more. Cool

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Re: what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  supervel45 on April 26th 2018, 7:31 am

http://www.429-460.com/t14610-dyno-results-a-headed-557-on-91-octane-pump-gas-dyno-update-page-6

Do some research on this truck, you may pickup some useful ideas especially on traction and suspension mods.
















d

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Re: what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  BlueBomber on April 26th 2018, 8:30 am

thanks for the link!

The biggie for me wanting to change the existing cam is the dynamic compression calculators put me at 9.8-9.9:1... I was lead to believe that even with the closed chamber design and proper quench I would need to be less than 8.75:1 DCR to get a warm and fuzzy with pump gas. Is this the right path to avoid additives/cans of VP rolling around my shop??
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Re: what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  supervel45 on April 26th 2018, 8:55 am

Some guys squeak by but, like Randy said you are right on the edge. You can go with a larger cam that bleeds off cylinder pressure to help with the problem, no doubt, it's no guarantee though.

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Re: what I have and my 2-3yr plan

Post  BlueBomber on April 26th 2018, 11:06 am

well I have a set of home ported D3s on my 3/4 ton, but they are factory valve size, so to use them would mean new parts for the 3/4 ton as well as work on the D3s if they are even usable for performance... (whoever the last one to install guides was broke off quite a chunk when pressing them in... hasn't been an issue yet on the 8:1 motor so who knows... chunk is missing on an intake side facing the intake port, so I'm sure if it ain't cracked now that some will form eventually...)

That's why I keep saying new heads, but Edelbrocks are about the only ones that would drop CR and wouldn't require new intake and pistons... or are there better options??

New assembled 95cc Eddys installed would still be under $3500 all-in on this from carb to pan/water pump to flexplate... so It won't kill my budget, I just didn't want to buy new heads that are gonna limit me down the road... wanted to wait till the bottom was being built to match...
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