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Post  whitefield on December 9th 2018, 10:26 pm

I am looking for information on a big bore short stroke 490 to 500 cid set up for drag racing and small amount of street driving .

The set up will be in a 64 Fairlane 275 dragradial Caltrac mono leaf , with rear slider on the leaf spring and adjustable shocks. Double control arm front with coil overs and double adjustable shocks .
transmission C6 or AOD transmission.
Single carb all motor.

RPM range is or should be around 8500 to 9500 .

Thanks in advance Whitefield
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Post  BBFTorino on December 9th 2018, 11:46 pm

That would be along the lines of a Pro Stock approach.....big bore, with big heads and big valves for big airflow!!
Short stroke 3.5" or 3.6 or so.
Some of the truck pullers also use similar combo's and turn them 9000+ for 30 seconds!! Shocked

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Post  rmcomprandy on December 10th 2018, 12:48 am

whitefield wrote:I am looking for information on a big bore short stroke 490 to 500 cid set up for drag racing and small amount of street driving .

The set up will be in a 64 Fairlane 275 dragradial Caltrac mono leaf , with rear slider on the leaf spring and adjustable shocks. Double control arm front with coil overs and double adjustable shocks .
transmission C6 or AOD transmission.
Single carb all motor.

RPM range is or should be around 8500 to 9500 .

Thanks in advance Whitefield

At around that RPM level ... 4.530" bore x 3.850" stroke is my preference.

EDIT: You'll easily break an AOD for sure.


Last edited by rmcomprandy on December 10th 2018, 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post  Mark Miller on December 10th 2018, 2:18 am

I don't have a answer to your question but if that's the Fairlane in your Avatar it looks Bad A**!!! Smile

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Post  IDT-572 on December 10th 2018, 6:01 pm

How much HP are you thinking your wanting to Mike?
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Post  whitefield on December 10th 2018, 11:02 pm

Mark Miller wrote:I don't have a answer to your question but if that's the Fairlane in your Avatar it looks Bad A**!!! Smile

Mark this is not my Fairlane , but one I have patterned mine after. I will post up some pics after I get my new wheels and windows back in it. .
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Post  whitefield on December 10th 2018, 11:15 pm

IDT-572 wrote:How much HP are you thinking your wanting to Mike?

Blake me and you and Red have somewhat talked about this combo for sometime.

I like rpm and hp I also like the small tire dragradial stuff too!

I also like to run a 3 speed automatic transmission.

So to answer you not sure but some where south of 850hp +!

I still have all of my small block stuff , but would like to try this.

I know there will be high maintenance ! Valve lash , valve spring , once a year inspection and probably more.
This is where I failed with my small blocks ! Embarassed I didn't keep an eye on valve spring psi and valve lash.

So I need some info on heads , rocker arms ,type and style?




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Post  Mark Miller on December 11th 2018, 12:48 am

whitefield wrote:
Mark Miller wrote:I don't have a answer to your question but if that's the Fairlane in your Avatar it looks Bad A**!!! Smile

Mark this is not my Fairlane , but one I have patterned mine after. I will post up some pics after I get my new wheels and windows back in it. .


Yes for sure post some pictures when you get the windows in and the new wheels on it!!! Smile

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Post  cool40 on December 12th 2018, 12:49 am

Short deck will help with rod weight and be happier with high rpm. Over 8000 rpm gets hard on parts in my experience. If you plan on 8500-9000 rpm skip the 429 truck crank and get a billet.
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Post  BBFTorino on December 12th 2018, 12:54 am

whitefield wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:How much HP are you thinking your wanting to Mike?

Blake me and you and Red have somewhat talked about this combo for sometime.

I like rpm and hp I also like the small tire dragradial stuff too!

I also like to run a 3 speed automatic transmission.

So to answer you not sure but some where south of 850hp +!

I still have all of my small block stuff , but would like to try this.

I know there will be high maintenance ! Valve lash , valve spring , once a year inspection and probably more.
This is where I failed with my small blocks ! Embarassed  I didn't keep an eye on valve spring psi and valve lash.

So I need some info on heads , rocker arms ,type and style?




Heads...the best ones that you can afford!!
Rocker arms.....quality shaft mount style!!....I believe Jesel makes a setup called the "Mohawk" that has a strengthening rib that keeps the rocker body strong, while reducing the weight at the roller tip by 25% or so...
You'll want to keep the valvetrain as light as possible....titanium valves, beehive springs with titanium retainers.

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Post  rmcomprandy on December 12th 2018, 12:59 am

whitefield wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:How much HP are you thinking your wanting to Mike?

Blake me and you and Red have somewhat talked about this combo for sometime.

I like rpm and hp I also like the small tire dragradial stuff too!

I also like to run a 3 speed automatic transmission.

So to answer you not sure but some where south of 850hp +!

I still have all of my small block stuff , but would like to try this.

I know there will be high maintenance ! Valve lash , valve spring , once a year inspection and probably more.
This is where I failed with my small blocks ! Embarassed  I didn't keep an eye on valve spring psi and valve lash.

So I need some info on heads , rocker arms ,type and style?


With that cubic inch size ... Kaase's new SR-71 heads would do very well with a set-up like that.

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Post  HorsinAround on December 12th 2018, 9:36 am

Running those RPM, You'll want to check your spring pressures more then once a year and definitely run titanium. On the crank, I ran a truck crank that Adney prepared for me and it is still going strong 7 years after I sold the motor. We were limited to 470ci, so I ran a 4.400 x 3.85 deal and ran 8600-9300 every night I pulled. Regarding heads, Take Randy's advice and go with either the SR-71 or A460.

whitefield wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:How much HP are you thinking your wanting to Mike?

Blake me and you and Red have somewhat talked about this combo for sometime.

I like rpm and hp I also like the small tire dragradial stuff too!

I also like to run a 3 speed automatic transmission.

So to answer you not sure but some where south of 850hp +!

I still have all of my small block stuff , but would like to try this.

I know there will be high maintenance ! Valve lash , valve spring , once a year inspection and probably more.
This is where I failed with my small blocks ! Embarassed  I didn't keep an eye on valve spring psi and valve lash.

So I need some info on heads , rocker arms ,type and style?





cool40 wrote:Short deck will help with rod weight and be happier with high rpm. Over 8000 rpm gets hard on parts in my experience. If you plan on 8500-9000 rpm skip the 429 truck crank and get a billet.

rmcomprandy wrote:
whitefield wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:How much HP are you thinking your wanting to Mike?

Blake me and you and Red have somewhat talked about this combo for sometime.

I like rpm and hp I also like the small tire dragradial stuff too!

I also like to run a 3 speed automatic transmission.

So to answer you not sure but some where south of 850hp +!

I still have all of my small block stuff , but would like to try this.

I know there will be high maintenance ! Valve lash , valve spring , once a year inspection and probably more.
This is where I failed with my small blocks ! Embarassed  I didn't keep an eye on valve spring psi and valve lash.

So I need some info on heads , rocker arms ,type and style?


With that cubic inch size ... Kaase's new SR-71 heads would do very well with a set-up like that.
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Post  IDT-572 on December 12th 2018, 6:13 pm

At 850 hp, it won't take a ton of head, and I think a stock block bored to 4.440 and a stock 429 truck crank (a stock 429 crank would probably hold) and good rods,with a set of heads that flow 400 cfm and research the heads and find one that has the smallest cross section. I think that should reach your 850 hp and 8000 + rpm with 441 cubic inch.

Best thing is it wont break the bank money wise.


I would probably run the Victor over the Mafia on this build too. Just radius the runner entries good and raise the runner roof some at the plenum.

Ti intake valves, Ti retainers, good springs, and I personally think at 8000 rpm a good stud and rocker arm /girdle set up would be fine.
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Post  cool40 on December 13th 2018, 12:23 am

What kind of rods did you use with that truck crank?  
HorsinAround wrote:Running those RPM, You'll want to check your spring pressures more then once a year and definitely run titanium. On the crank, I ran a truck crank that Adney prepared for me and it is still going strong 7 years after I sold the motor. We were limited to 470ci, so I ran a 4.400 x 3.85 deal and ran 8600-9300 every night I pulled. Regarding heads, Take Randy's advice and go with either the SR-71 or A460.

whitefield wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:How much HP are you thinking your wanting to Mike?

Blake me and you and Red have somewhat talked about this combo for sometime.

I like rpm and hp I also like the small tire dragradial stuff too!

I also like to run a 3 speed automatic transmission.

So to answer you not sure but some where south of 850hp +!

I still have all of my small block stuff , but would like to try this.
O
I know there will be high maintenance ! Valve lash , valve spring , once a year inspection and probably more.
This is where I failed with my small blocks ! Embarassed  I didn't keep an eye on valve spring psi and valve lash.

So I need some info on heads , rocker arms ,type and style?





cool40 wrote:Short deck will help with rod weight and be happier with high rpm. Over 8000 rpm gets hard on parts in my experience. If you plan on 8500-9000 rpm skip the 429 truck crank and get a billet.

rmcomprandy wrote:
whitefield wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:How much HP are you thinking your wanting to Mike?

Blake me and you and Red have somewhat talked about this combo for sometime.

I like rpm and hp I also like the small tire dragradial stuff too!

I also like to run a 3 speed automatic transmission.

So to answer you not sure but some where south of 850hp +!

I still have all of my small block stuff , but would like to try this.

I know there will be high maintenance ! Valve lash , valve spring , once a year inspection and probably more.
This is where I failed with my small blocks ! Embarassed  I didn't keep an eye on valve spring psi and valve lash.

So I need some info on heads , rocker arms ,type and style?


With that cubic inch size ... Kaase's new SR-71 heads would do very well with a set-up like that.
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Post  stanger68 on December 13th 2018, 12:46 am

Sounds like you're describing a Bob Glidden/Tasca 494. I don't think you can get there with a production block though.

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Post  whitefield on December 17th 2018, 8:11 pm

Ok here is what I am thinking . I need to research connecting rods. I would like to use steel connecting rods instead of aluminum . Maybe wrong !? This is not something I plan on doing overnight, as I have several small block parts to either use or sale in order to have the cash flow to fund this project. .

You guys have laid it out pretty clear. I appreciate it.

Any recommendations on oiling ? Thanks Whitefield
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Post  johndickjr on December 20th 2018, 8:00 am

whitefield wrote:Ok here is what I am thinking . I need to research connecting rods. I would like to use steel connecting rods instead of aluminum . Maybe wrong !? This is not something I plan on doing overnight, as I have several small block parts to either use or sale in order to have the cash flow to fund this project. .

You guys have laid it out pretty clear. I appreciate it.

Any recommendations on oiling ? Thanks Whitefield
text me any parts that you are selling for the sbf

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Post  IDT-572 on December 20th 2018, 5:58 pm

whitefield wrote:Ok here is what I am thinking . I need to research connecting rods. I would like to use steel connecting rods instead of aluminum . Maybe wrong !? This is not something I plan on doing overnight, as I have several small block parts to either use or sale in order to have the cash flow to fund this project. .

You guys have laid it out pretty clear. I appreciate it.

Any recommendations on oiling ? Thanks Whitefield

Mike,

I know your like me, and try to spend money as smart as you can. Some on here give advise as if money grows on a tree in the backyard.

Use Eagle or Scat H beam rods with the 2000 bolt upgrade. debur the block and do all the oiling mods (there on this site somewhere Paul has it)
Make sure to do as much as you can to enhance the oil flow back to the pan from the top of the engine.

Oil clearances are important. I would run the rods at .0026 to .0028 and mains at .0036 to .0038. .

Kasse wet oil pump and set the oil pressure cold at around 85 lb. I run 5/50 oil in my engines.

Good oil pan with good oil control. scraper and screen or louvers.

Other people will have a different approach to this type of build, and I'm sure they work, this is just what I feel will work on what your trying to do.

Keep me posted...........
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Post  jbozzelle on December 21st 2018, 12:18 pm

I also think the SR-71 head would be good for this as well. You shouldn't need the A460 had due to the small cubes...

Also, let me know what SBF parts you want to part with. I'll be looking for a 302 Fox oil pan/pickup, RPM/Victor intake and maybe some heads around the 200cc size around March time frame...


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Post  cool40 on December 22nd 2018, 1:43 am

whitefield wrote:I am looking for information on a big bore short stroke 490 to 500 cid set up for drag racing and small amount of street driving .

The set up will be in a 64 Fairlane 275 dragradial Caltrac mono leaf , with rear slider on the leaf spring and adjustable shocks. Double control arm front with coil overs and double adjustable shocks .
transmission C6 or AOD transmission.
Single carb all motor.

RPM range is or should be around 8500 to 9500 .

Thanks in advance Whitefield
that last part,8500-9500, is going to be a problem on a budget.
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Post  rmcomprandy on December 22nd 2018, 12:11 pm

cool40 wrote:
whitefield wrote:I am looking for information on a big bore short stroke 490 to 500 cid set up for drag racing and small amount of street driving .

The set up will be in a 64 Fairlane 275 dragradial Caltrac mono leaf , with rear slider on the leaf spring and adjustable shocks. Double control arm front with coil overs and double adjustable shocks .
transmission C6 or AOD transmission.
Single carb all motor.

RPM range is or should be around 8500 to 9500 .

Thanks in advance Whitefield
that last part,8500-9500, is going to be a problem on a budget.

YEP ... that RPM range calls for Ti valves.

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Post  whitefield on December 23rd 2018, 12:44 pm

This is going to be a johnny cash engine , one piece at a time. So as I get the extra cash or sale parts I will purchase the big block stuff.!


What's the recommendations on blocks stock or aftermarket ?


Budget it's not but ,I want it to be well thought out and reliable. Well reliable as it can be !
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Post  cool40 on December 23rd 2018, 3:33 pm

whitefield wrote:This is going to be a johnny cash engine , one piece at a time. So as I get the extra cash or sale parts I will purchase the big block stuff.!


What's the recommendations on blocks stock or aftermarket ?


Budget it's not but ,I want it to be well thought out and reliable. Well reliable as it can be !
8500-9500 rpm will put the best parts to a test IMO. Aftermarket block and crank are your best money spent if you want good results and reliable.
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Post  bigford632 on December 23rd 2018, 5:46 pm

I ran a combo similar in one of my truck pull engines years back. It was a 552 with an A460 block 4.6" bore and an original iron crank offset ground for a 4.15" stroke. It had 7" Venolia aluminum rods and 14.5 to 1 compression. The heads were iron Blue Thunders with stud mounted rockers and a girdle with stainless valves and a lot of work and flow bench time. The intake was an Offenhouser Port-O-Sonic intake with lots of welding and work as well, and the carb was a heavily worked 1150 Dominator on race gas. This was all done in the late 90's before lots of the good parts were available like we have today and we had an iron head rule. The cam was a big UltraDyne with ~815" lift and 294/306 duration @ .050" on a 114. It was a wet sump with a HV pump and a Milodon truck pan, nothing special for oiling but it was restricted to the top end.

I ran that engine routinely at 8400, and it seemed happy there, with the occasional tapping on the 9000 RPM rev limiter on a loose track. Now I doubt that thing made peak power that high, maybe closer to 7500 or so, but even on a sticky track it would hold it's own and never seemed to run out of power. As has been mentioned in pulling we hold them at WOT for a good 20 seconds and at times longer. This combo lasted 3 1/2 years with about 20 runs per years untouched with only normal maintenance until I learned the hard way what the life span of those rods were. I won the PA state championship in my class 3 straight years with that combo and when the rods failed and took out the block I moved into the NTPA modified class.

IMO the TFS A460 heads are such a good bang for the buck it would be hard to argue against them. If you don't want to mess with custom headers the SR71 is looking to be a great head as well. Scat makes a forged steel 4.150" crank and I would run aluminum rods at that RPM, but in hindsight I would certainly swap them out more often!

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Post  whitefield on December 23rd 2018, 8:10 pm

Callie's or Oliver connecting Rods ?

I noticed a lot of these connecting rods are I beam .
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