which 4 bolt caps on a thin rail block

Guys, I got some overtime last week and am considering using the $$$ to put 4 bolt caps on my D9TE block. This is just extra insurance along with the forged crank.......buying time so to speak before I upgrade the block to an A460.

I am looking for suggestions as to which caps to use, and also if the procedure can be done at a normal race machine shop.

Thanks,

Greg

You might call Snake and see if Coon got his EDM deal figured out. They were trying something a while back, but I don't know if it got any further along yet.

i would have to say the mildon kit would be the cheapest and easiest to install
you can use b/t's but there will bw some added machine work
it will cost more to do
i am shure there are more kit's out there but those are to 2 i am familaire with
and both seem to work fine
but keep one thing in mind
i had a dove block and was gonna 4 bolt main it
and i ended up buying a A460 block from lem
it was gonna cost me about the same to use a stock block
as the price of the A460
i am shure youi have heard that befor but honsetly it work checking into
and than you have a block that will give you room to grow

Jesse,

I know what you're saying with regard to price. But, my block is 100% good to go right now, I need no machine work other than whatever it takes to install the caps.

The fact of the matter is that I do not have the 3,000 to get into an A460 block....it'll take some time to build up to that level, but I am saving as much as I can.

Greg

Milodon.

If the deal that Blake and Coon are working on comes together, four bolting a stock block will be inexpensive and very durable. Greg is no where near the level where an A block is necessary, it just needs a little more insurance, and this is where a good set of 4 bolt caps and a stock block are going to be just fine.

Greg,

An aftermarket four bolt cap kit on a stock block and forged crank is a tough package. especially at .030 over bore. I wish we had more feed back about this combo. Mine has been in the car now for a good while on the track several 1/4 mile passes and has had it's ass pulled off on the dyno. It has also seen 8100 rpm more than once because of my ignorance Over 850 hp 760 torque and 15:1 compression.

Cat chinee caps $69.00 . They have held up well, and the only down side I saw was they machined and honed tough, hard to get to size. I think once a shop has done several they may get it figured out. Probably figure out the right stroke and spindle speed.

If you have a block with all the machine work done, oil mods, lifters bushed, ect. I would have to look hard at the after market caps. I wish someone could say what this type of combo will hold hp wise, but I think the jury is still out.

Coon and I are still planning on doing the caps. David Willingham may do it also.

i didnt realize you were gonna use the same block
i agree
if the all you need to do is install 4 bolt caps
and your block is ready to go than yea a 4bolt kit is a good idea
but if you were gonna start from scatch with a block i would say
buy a aftermarket block
i talked to a few pepole on this the other day
i have a buddy that is 4 bolting a c8 block
his kit looks to be like a b/t kit
but i have seen a few milidon kit's installed on a dove and a d1 block
i would say for the money and easy to do
i would go for the milidon's
and machineing will be cheaper with that kit

IDT-572 wrote:Greg,


Coon and I are still planning on doing the caps. David Willingham may do it also.

So are you saying that you plan on making your own caps?

So

On the milodon kit is there anything special about the bolt length? I need to run a stud kit for the windage tray in my deal>

ace

I have a set of Program Engineering splayed caps on the center 3 ...... and 2 bolt on the front and rear. Mine is on a D1VE thin rail block, but the block is grouted to the water pump holes and the caps are tongue and groove so to speak. I bought a complete short block off of Engine Systems that started life out as a .080 / 514 combo back in 1994. Probably 500 passes later and 2000 street miles the block is still in my hands and is now a 557 combo with C-heads which probably makes an honest 1000HP N/A. It will be going in my 62 Galaxie project and I still have the ut-most confidence in it. I have taken care of my stuff by doing more than my share of maintainence, and I don't run my stuff on the ragged edge either. I strongly beleive the key to longevity is GROUTING AND 4 BOLT CONVERSION in a 850HP and up engine, along with not being afraid to pull the pan of once in a while.

Just my 2 cents,
Travis

TravisRice wrote:I have a set of Program Engineering splayed caps on the center 3 ...... and 2 bolt on the front and rear. Mine is on a D1VE thin rail block, but the block is grouted to the water pump holes and the caps are tongue and groove so to speak. I bought a complete short block off of Engine Systems that started life out as a .080 / 514 combo back in 1994. Probably 500 passes later and 2000 street miles the block is still in my hands and is now a 557 combo with C-heads which probably makes an honest 1000HP N/A. It will be going in my 62 Galaxie project and I still have the ut-most confidence in it. I have taken care of my stuff by doing more than my share of maintainence, and I don't run my stuff on the ragged edge either. I strongly beleive the key to longevity is GROUTING AND 4 BOLT CONVERSION in a 850HP and up engine, along with not being afraid to pull the pan of once in a while.

Just my 2 cents,
Travis

There you have it.................

Don't just take my word for it guy's. I have had extremely good luck with a factory iron block. Kept the Revs to 7200 and below. It could just as well be a crap shoot, as well as luck of the draw. Could be how the block was prepped before hand, who knows? Just some more useful data.

Sorry double post.

I agree the factory blocks are very durable, if you already have one with alot ofwork and filled use it. But it aftermarket stuff is definetly worth the extra $$$ IMO. Caps are already their, ability to go to a 4.600+ bore, better metal, better oiling system........ Bla bla bla! WORTH THE INVESTMENT.

Ok, then, it's settled. I'm going to get a set of CAT caps and go for it.

Greg

hey guys...what about installing dowells? has anyone had any success? any info&pics to share? i was thinking of trying this idea

jm wrote:hey guys...what about installing dowells? has anyone had any success? any info&pics to share? i was thinking of trying this idea

JM I have a set of Ford motorsport caps I am going to try and put them on a Dove Block and I am going to drill and pin them I think the Pinning is a great idea.... stops all cap walk Period.....my SCJ block is pinned from the factory...


Randy

dfree383 wrote:I agree the factory blocks are very durable, if you already have one with alot ofwork and filled use it. But it aftermarket stuff is definetly worth the extra $$$ IMO. Caps are already their, ability to go to a 4.600+ bore, better metal, better oiling system........ Bla bla bla! WORTH THE INVESTMENT.

I agree 100% with you Dave. The only reason I still have mine is that it has given me 0 problems and thats the way they sold the short block to me.

Well, my main machine shop says they don't have a line boring setup, so no cap install there.....

The second joint I sometimes use says they can do it, but it'll be between 400-500 to do the job.



So, I just bought a set of Mondello cap straps and studs.

Greg

Greg_P wrote:Well, my main machine shop says they don't have a line boring setup, so no cap install there.....

The second joint I sometimes use says they can do it, but it'll be between 400-500 to do the job.



So, I just bought a set of Mondello cap straps and studs.

Greg

The 4 bolt caps distribute the crank load out to the pan rail to some degree, which of coarse helps, but the cap straps will probably stop the cap walk. They wont help keeping the block from cracking from the main bore to the cam bore like the 4 bolt cap probably does. JMHO.

You seem to be on top of your tune, more than most people, that will help a ton.

Keep us posted and show some pictures.

Thanks, Blake, and while we haven't hurt anything yet on account of the tune, it's more likely out of fear and constant plug checking than tuning know how....lol...

I'm very disappointed that the 4 bolt deal ain't gonna happen. I forgot to say that the one shop that did say they could likely do the conversion also told me that if the caps are too hard (like has been mentioned already in this thread) that his cutters wouldn't deal with it and he would stop the install (!!!!). At that time, I would be welcome to come in and pay full price and pick up my now useless block.....lol.....

That was the straw that broke the camel's back right there.

Do the straps and save the coin for an a460 block, they have other benefits besides splayed 4 bolt mains.................

Yeah, I figure I can start saving now for the better block. The entire plan right now is to save $$$ for two seasons. Then it's A460 time, P51 time, and backhalf time...

Ouch, my wallet went from fat to flat just thinking about all that.

Greg

Greg_P wrote:Yeah, I figure I can start saving now for the better block. The entire plan right now is to save $$$ for two seasons. Then it's A460 time, P51 time, and backhalf time...

Ouch, my wallet went from fat to flat just thinking about all that.

Greg

Sounds like a plan