nitrous with alky

Just curious if Steve has this perfected. I would be more interested in spraying alky with the nitrous instead of gas

Not to trample on Steve's toes............Randy get a hold of James Monroe, I know he has a bunch of customers that do this very thing, as bad as I hate to say it NX has a pretty good system for this.

I'll keep an eye on this one, I may have more things going on than most know lol.

You'll need an electric pump...............

I talked with a gentleman that said nx had it down , but when its your engine that could get toasted I like to hear a few educated opinions lol. I am also running the high speed leanout with my injection and just wonder if that would have to be avoided.

KY JELLY wrote:I like to hear a few educated opinions.

Oh wait, you already know my opinion on Nitrous. . . .

MsKYMustang wrote:

KY JELLY wrote:I like to hear a few educated opinions.

Oh wait, you already know my opinion on Nitrous. . . .

O shit

MsKYMustang wrote:

KY JELLY wrote:I like to hear a few educated opinions.

Oh wait, you already know my opinion on Nitrous. . . .

he's just gonna put a "whiff" of Mr. Frosty on it.................it'll B allright...............

MsKYMustang wrote:

KY JELLY wrote:I like to hear a few educated opinions.

Oh wait, you already know my opinion on Nitrous. . . .

Becka, you need to get back to sanding................

HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND!!! I think your sanding the wrong head again Randy?

Here's some food for thought. First of all, you have to ask yourself, is why alky makes more power than gasoline. The general rule is, that it makes 7% maybe 10% more than gasoline, in a non supercharged application. in a supercharged application it can make 20% or more! The two reasons why it can make more power is, first, It has much more laten heat of evaporation. We have cooled the intake charge substantally, thereby bringing in more air (remember for every 10 degrees in reduction in inlet temp we stand to gain 1% in power). The 2nd contribution to power is that we can burn almost twice as much fuel in the same amount of time, witch makes more heat and produces more power. The question now becomes how much of that 7to 10% power gain come from laten heat of evaporation, and how much comes the burning of more fuel? Shall we say 1/2? (3 1/2 to 5% for each? well when bring we bring nitrous into the equation, you can forget about laten heat of evaporation, the nitrous comes in at -127 degrees and drops the intake temps some 60 degrees maybe more. So now were looking at maybe only 3 1/2 to 5% gain. but here's the problem. have you ever tried to run an engine on alky at 10 to 20 degrees above zero! think about it, if it's 70 degrees out and we drop that temp say 60 degrees we now have an intake charge temp of approx. 10 degrees above zero! At first this sound good, right? But now you have to remember how fuel burns. Fuel burns only as a gas (vapor) not as a liquid. So only the outside of the droplet burns, as it burns it burns toward the center of the droplet. we must have it in a gasous state (vaporized) for it to lite and burn. Heat is a key factor in helping vaporize those droplets, so when you introduce somthing as cold as alky you do not let those droplets vaporize and you actually burn (not flow) less fuel. The racing gasolines of today are much better and vaporize at colder temperatures and in most cases will outperform alky with nitrous, except in supercharging, witch is a whle another animal. I have yet to see a alky/nitrous program outrun a nitrous/gasoline program.


this is just something i copied and pasted

Injectioning alky (mechanical) and running a good amount of juice is a challenage. When you run a carb it's easier, much easier. By easier I mean to tune. A carb will self adjust both air and fuel when the NO2 comes on, injection won't! An injection motor will require a very different tune up than a carb for either a plate or fogger. The reason is when the juice comes on it displaces the air going in the motor for the alky so even if your nitrous tune up is dead on you just fattened the hell on the injection side because it's not getting the right amount of air now! To make matters worse, NO2 comes on, what happens?? The rpm's spike up, injection just understands rpm which translates to fuel pressure, more rpm more fuel pressure, more fuel, now take away air from all that fuel. As I said above this doesn't happen w/a carb because it senses the change in signal and therefore reduces both air and fuel that the NO2 displaces. So in order to fix the issue injection creates you need to add more nitrous than normal to compensate for the displaced air and the more HP you shot in the more additional nitrous you will need. I run a terminator and NO2. For my plate system that enrichens on gas, 75/75 is a 150 shot, I need to run 82N/75gas or I have to lean the injection out to make it run clean. The kit I have goes up to 250 HP which calls for a 108/108 tune up. Last year at an IHRA race I had to toss the kitchen sink at it to qualify, normally I just spray 150, I used a 116N/96gas w/a lean injection set up and it was fat but did run good enough to get in.... So you can do it but I would say if your going to spray a bunch (over 300HP) then use a gas carb, it will be a bus load easier and others will be able to help, not many run NO2 and alky injection.
Good luck

more food for thought !!!

these are just some comments in reguards to your post i found Randy , im sure Steve will chime in

I can see that , I think what a lot of people do not grasp is most of the torque that comes with alcohol is due to the cylinder pressure increase from the higher volume of fuel in the cylinder. A carb will self adjust to some extent , but it will not allow you to to run extra rich on the starting line and clean it up on the upper rpm's with a high speed lean out like injection will. I can see it being a big pain to tune adding the nitrous and extra fuel to the mix.

After reading that I think I understand better why a friend of mine that runs with us split a high dollar dart sbc block with 40% overdrive and a 175 shot of nitrous

Back to Gas Randy?

I am gonna try the q -16 with the injection , but no "I" don't think it will out perform regular plain alcohol on injection, much less m-5 or 5-10% nitro / alky. I think it will with a carb to carb comparison , but not injection .

I was just interested in the nitrous info , not real big on using nitrous but always try to keep an open mind

As far as using gas on a regular basis no way , gas cost too much and not near as consistent , if I found it to be quicker I would not be opposed to using it in a qk 8 or something.

Randy,

Ken Herbert called yesterday, (he was #2 or 3 qualifer at the 1st Bash with a 4.68 e.t.) with his 572 CID TFS A-460 headed deal, that Lem, Bob and I built. Anyway, he runs alky and an Enderle Birdcatcher injection, and he's fixing to try nitrous with gasoline enrichment. He's already got two pumps and two tanks. I'll try to keep you up to date as this deal progresses.

Charlie

Lester Adkins has been running nos and alky for many years........carbs.

I run Ron's dual terminators on alky,a pro race fogger with 116 gas in a 1 gallon enrichment tank,with a 200 hp shot for 6 seconds,works great.Pat

The best luck we have had is running the carb on Alky and the nitrous with racing gas.. I have seen limited luck with alky/alky. maybe inpart due to limited info maybe ?? Thanks, SJ

Induction-Solutions wrote:The best luck we have had is running the carb on Alky and the nitrous with racing gas.. I have seen limited luck with alky/alky. maybe inpart due to limited info maybe ?? Thanks, SJ

I have a buddy who does the alky carb and C16 on the spray setup. He is deadly consistant. It is a 406 chebby, weighs about 3200lbs and uses ported vortec heads off a truck. He usually runs in the 5.95-6.05 range here in Texas. He has only sprayed a 200 shot. We flow the fuel on the nitrous system with a flow tool and run the jets square.

Ok , put another twist on this. Is it possible to not use an enrichment fuel solenoid and just richen with the bypass pills on injection ? I have heard of people doing this just don't know how safe it is . I don't see why the flow could not be figured correctly you have set nozzle sizes and pump size , I realize the fuel pressure might increase with more rpm. I am just talking about a 100 - 150 hp shot.

seen it done with efi only.

would the gas/nitrous generate more combustion chamber heat making the alky more efficient?

Seen it done many ways. No more than KY wants to shoot the alky enrichment should be no problem............no M5 lol.

The NX perimeter plate is what the bracket and top dragster guys are using for nitrous/alky. If you want gas/alky get with Steve J. Again this is just waht I have gathered over the various forums from guys who have done it.

Lem Evans wrote:Lester Adkins has been running nos and alky for many years........carbs.

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^^^^^ so in other words dont try and over-complicate things................

My point is that it has been done .
Not even some the nos experts can do it .
Gas to start it...gas to drive it back to the pits....gas to spray it ...vacuum pump to remove the moister....what's the point