Valve spring height

I have some question about valve spring height. Should I install the valve springs at the height the head manufacture recommends the valve spring manufacture or the cam manufacture. The heads are Trick flow 429/460. the cam is a doug herbert mech roller and the springs are unknown. I'm putting the heads back together soon and was going to put the spring height at 1.830". Thanks

You say the valvesprings are "unkown", and that is everything! You have to know what the valve springs are. Take them to a machine shop, find out where coil bind is, what the pressure is about .060" away from coil bind, and what the seat pressure is at 1.900" and 1.950".

To help you further, you need to tell us the lift of the cam, whether or not these were assembled heads from TFS, whether or not you have steel retainers or titanium retainers, and some dimensions from the valve springs, such as o.d. and i.d.. Doubles? Doubles with a dampner or what?

Uncle Charlie

The camshaft specs should tell you what you need for both seat and open valve spring pressure.

Then you need to check the springs and find out if they are capable of providing those pressures.

If they are you need to record the height and then check to see if the head/valve/keeper combination you have will allow you to install them at that height.

All things have to work together in order to achieve satisfactory results.

oops charlie beat me to it.

dkp

Here are the specs for the valve springs.
210lbs at 1.900
215lbs at 1.850
240lbs at 1.800
410lbs at 1.300
425lbs at 1.250
430lbs at 1.200

Coil Bind at 1.050
od 1.5250
I have titanium retaners.
I have not herd back from doug herbert about cam and what pressures they require. The cam card has no info on it for spring pressures.
.698/.700 advertised duration 305/308.
@.050 269/275 lift 107c

64 fairlane wrote:Here are the specs for the valve springs.
210lbs at 1.900
215lbs at 1.850
240lbs at 1.800
410lbs at 1.300
425lbs at 1.250
430lbs at 1.200

Coil Bind at 1.050
od 1.5250
I have titanium retaners.
I have not herd back from doug herbert about cam and what pressures they require. The cam card has no info on it for spring pressures.
.698/.700 advertised duration 305/308.
@.050 269/275 lift 107c

Based on the spring info you've given, I went through the Comp Cams catalog listing of 88 different valve springs and I can't find anything close, (in terms of specs) to what you've listed. Also the assembled TFS heads have 4 valve spring options and your numbers don't match up with any of them. So, I can't figure out what springs you have.

Since it is a Herbert mechanical roller, I'd say those spring specs are a little on the light side, especially at open pressure. However, if you set the springs up at 1.830", like you said, then minus .680" net lift, that leaves you at 1.150" or .100" away from coil bind. I think I would probably do them that way,,,or even set them up at 1.800" and operate them closer to coil bind. BUT first I would take them to a spring tester and double check their pressures. IMO you have the wrong springs there for this application,,,,,for racing.

Hope this helps,

Charlie

Thanks Carlie for taking the time to respond to my post and everyone else that responed. Charlie what would you recommend for valve springs any help would greatly be appriciated. This is for a drag race engine. The engine is a 528 cu 4.30 stroke 6.8 rod 60 over diamond flat top piston. With heads and cam listed in this post. Rotating assemble is on its way from Adney at performance crank. Victor intake 1150 dom. Its going in a 64 fairlane about 3300#.

You need to call the cam manufacture and get the springs the recommend, those specs sound a like light at lift for a decent roller cam IMO

like Charlie posted, you can make them work. working and right are two different things . correct valve train parts are always cheaper in the long run .

Do like what Dave said and get back with Herbert Cams and see what they recommend for that grind. After you've got that info, then you can make a more informed decision on valve springs.

Charlie

64 fairlane wrote:Here are the specs for the valve springs.
210lbs at 1.900
215lbs at 1.850
240lbs at 1.800
410lbs at 1.300
425lbs at 1.250
430lbs at 1.200

Coil Bind at 1.050
od 1.5250
I have titanium retaners.
I have not herd back from doug herbert about cam and what pressures they require. The cam card has no info on it for spring pressures.
.698/.700 advertised duration 305/308.
@.050 269/275 lift 107c

Something is not right with those posted numbers ... every .050" of compression will yeild the same increase in spring pressure.
The AVERAGE of the rate numbers you have given is about 300 pounds per inch. That is a street/strip, flat tappet rate yet the seat pressure is roller cam stuff.

Sounds like a counterwound outer spring missing the inner.

As others have said, post up what the springs consist of. As Randy said, I am thinking that there is an inner spring missing

I agree with the two posts above, something is wrong with the numbers you posted on those valve springs. That's why I said take them to a spring checker and test the springs all the way through in .100" increments of lift. I was noticing that they didn't change much in pressure at the higher open lift points. If in fact those numbers are accurate and valid, then I believe I'd be taking the springs back to whomever you got them from and get your money back.

There is a reason,,,,,,, the various cam manufacturers have such a large assortment of different valve springs. Trust me, if they could get by, with stocking only 10-12 sets of spings they would. Unfortunately, I believe that many of our BB Ford guys are running mismatched valve springs with their combos. Some guys don't have enough valve spring pressure and others are at the opposite end and suffering from overkill. I have found the Comp Cams catolog to be most helpful when it comes to valve springs. They have the rate and pressures broken down in chart form, and you can find this chart by going to their web site. In addition to the valve spring pressure matching your cam correctly, we also have a problem with the spring and retainers matching up. Again, you have to pay attention. Double springs, double with dampners, triple springs, o.d. and i.d. of the outer and again of the inner, standard retainers, +.100" retainers and the list goes on.

Hope this helps,

Charlie

Thanks guys for all the replies!
I've emailed Herbert cams a couple of times with no reply. I am going to give them a call to get the right specs for valve springs. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.