Help W/ Heads & Intake choice, go "Blue Thunder"??

im building a "street" machine i want to hit 600hp and hopefully more trq, this is for limited street weekends and car shows and maybe some drag strip passes
looking at the following parts:
a custom grind comp "306S" hydrolic flat tappet cam : 306 dur. .64 lift , 110 lobe , 3000-6800 rpm
a scat 4.5 crank with 1.7 i beams, and forged pistons ( dunno if dished depends on the head choice )
3500 stall converter in c6
373 gears

what would be a better head for limited street use for my build?? the performer rpm head or the Blue thunder head for this set up?? what rpms does the thunder run at? ( out of the box )

what would be a better intake for street use for my build?? the performer rpm air gap or the blue thunder 2x4 ( dual quad ) set up?? and what rpms does the thunder intake run at?? ( out of the box )

do you guys think this set up looks alright for street use?? ill be running pump gas 91 octane in salt lake city, UT thanks for the help and any opinions, im open to any advice and concerns about my build

I look a tfs streets, p51 or ford racing scj's and a different cam.

How much money are you intending to spend to get where you wish to go...?
What chassis is this going to be installed into...?
Is this a "all build" or just the top part with a cam...? (You already have the short block built...?).

You have given very little information but, Dave is basicly correct. Use a 4.3 stroke crankshaft, (the intake will NOT be your RPM limitation; 5,500 RPM max), and get a better camshaft, (a Custom Grind will be MUCH better suited to whatever your combination).
You should be at almost 700 horsepower with a solid lifter camshaft and that combination.

The Dual Quad "blue Thunder" intake runs well on the street however, there are 3 different ones depending upon the intake port of the heads it is intended to have or whether or not you need a "licensed" copy of the original Holman-Moody unit.
It's ALL about the money as asked earlier.

There is a lot more to this than just putting parts together ... the CORRECT parts together will be MUCH, MUCH better.

rmcomprandy wrote:How much money are you intending to spend to get where you wish to go...?
What chassis is this going to be installed into...?
Is this a "all build" or just the top part with a cam...? (You already have the short block built...?).

You have given very little information but, Dave is basicly correct. Use a 4.3 stroke crankshaft, (the intake will NOT be your RPM limitation; 5,500 RPM max), and get a better camshaft, (a Custom Grind will be MUCH better suited to whatever your combination).
You should be at almost 700 horsepower with a solid lifter camshaft and that combination.

The Dual Quad "blue Thunder" intake runs well on the street however, there are 3 different ones depending upon the intake port of the heads it is intended to have or whether or not you need a "licensed" copy of the original Holman-Moody unit.
It's ALL about the money as asked earlier.

first question $$$ im willing to spend the extra if the blue thunder is a better set up for street , my cars also going to be used for car shows, and i like the look of the dual quad and no one else makes one that's not a high rise which i don't need, my goal is 600hp maybe a little more using these parts, im looking for a cam i love the sound of the 306 duration take a look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGsbrp9hjzw
the car needs to sound awesome seeing how there are some cruise nights and car shows around here.
i have not yet started on the engine Assembly, or anything else in that matter, im doing full suspension: k-member, a arms, struts, 250lb springs, struts, shocks, sub frame connectors, upper and lower control arms and tubbing to fit http://www.jegs.com/i/Mickey-Thompson/672/3788R/10002/-1?parentProductId=#moreDetails if needed.

i have everything figured out really except for the heads, intake, and cam choice but i want something with that good sounding 306 duration, is there a way i could get this duration from a smaller cam say 1500-6000 rpm??? with a good lift since its a 545? keep in mind i was looking at a 3200ish stall or this too big?? i want it to shift hard and keep you in the seat slamming through the gears
i have seen a few good things about the blue thunders, the last topic i seen was http://www.carcraft.com/techfaq/ccrp_0706_engine_building/ford_545.html so i decided to do some research and see what people thing about these for street, and also he happened to have the 306s cam too but its a mechanical i want hydrolic, that i was wanting after talking to the guy on youtube from the sound clip above

i was wanting to keep the cubes the 545 why go to a 4.3 stroke ??
any other impute and advice ill keep in mind and thanks for the help so far, this is my first build i wanna do it right

IMHO, cam profiles should never be chosen by the way they "sound". The right cam, is the right cam, and the proper grind is the one that works well with the other components in the build, and all of the parameters of the vehicle. The TFS Street heads are a great choice for your application, and are some well proven performers for street/strip applications. Randy and Dave are giving you some solid advice here, and are well qualified and distinguished engine builders with many EMC builds between them. They aren't just run of the mill keyboard engine builders.

schmitty wrote:IMHO, cam profiles should never be chosen by the way they "sound". The right cam, is the right cam, and the proper grind is the one that works well with the other components in the build, and all of the parameters of the vehicle. The TFS Street heads are a great choice for your application, and are some well proven performers for street/strip applications. Randy and Dave are giving you some solid advice here, and are well qualified and distinguished engine builders with many EMC builds between them. They aren't just run of the mill keyboard engine builders.

i under stand this i want a cam that performs good for what i want "street use" but i want the good sound as well , is there a way to get a custom grind cam thats about 2500-5500 rpm with 306 duration for the sound? and around 550-570 lift?

Hell with 570 lift I would just put a pair of D3ve on it and go, you are not going to use the Aluminum heads to any of their advantage...... or potential....


JMHO
Randy

the Coug wrote:Hell with 570 lift I would just put a pair of D3ve on it and go, you are not going to use the Aluminum heads to any of their advantage...... or potential....


JMHO
Randy

this is with port and valve work on the d3ve right?? i have a pair of d3ve and a pair of d0ve i went to a couple different machine shops it was 1300-1400 bucks for machine work and cleaning up on d0ve heads its only about 6-700 bucks more to upgrade to aluminum heads that are lighter and have room for growing if needed , i was thinking 570ish lift someone told me i want mid 500s lift for a street machine and when around 600 lift you have wear issues is this not true??? id like to get the 640 lift but i dont wanna have issues, by the way this isnt just a 460 its going to be a 545 the same guy said d3 and d0 is good for a 460ci but wont flow the numbers for a 545, he recommended the trick flow heads saying they flow better for the 545, and the performer rpm and SCJs are good for a 460 but not as good as the trick flow for the 545 , this is my first build im new to this any advice is helpful

i made my mind up on a intake im getting the blue thunder mid rise dual quad with bigger ports and the holly pre-calibrated carb kit with the linkage

thanks
~Bret

superfox90 wrote:

the Coug wrote:Hell with 570 lift I would just put a pair of D3ve on it and go, you are not going to use the Aluminum heads to any of their advantage...... or potential....


JMHO
Randy

this is with port and valve work on the d3ve right?? i have a pair of d3ve and a pair of d0ve i went to a couple different machine shops it was 1300-1400 bucks for machine work and cleaning up on d0ve heads its only about 6-700 bucks more to upgrade to aluminum heads that are lighter and have room for growing if needed , i was thinking 570ish lift someone told me i want mid 500s lift for a street machine and when around 600 lift you have wear issues is this not true??? id like to get the 640 lift but i dont wanna have issues, by the way this isnt just a 460 its going to be a 545, this is my first build im new to this any advice is helpful

thanks
~Bret

Well, you've been given some very good advise, and so far you're not wanting to take any of it. You'd be wise to listen to Randy and Dave, but I doubt you will.

Nevs wrote:

superfox90 wrote:

the Coug wrote:Hell with 570 lift I would just put a pair of D3ve on it and go, you are not going to use the Aluminum heads to any of their advantage...... or potential....


JMHO
Randy

this is with port and valve work on the d3ve right?? i have a pair of d3ve and a pair of d0ve i went to a couple different machine shops it was 1300-1400 bucks for machine work and cleaning up on d0ve heads its only about 6-700 bucks more to upgrade to aluminum heads that are lighter and have room for growing if needed , i was thinking 570ish lift someone told me i want mid 500s lift for a street machine and when around 600 lift you have wear issues is this not true??? id like to get the 640 lift but i dont wanna have issues, by the way this isnt just a 460 its going to be a 545, this is my first build im new to this any advice is helpful

thanks
~Bret

Well, you've been given some very good advise, and so far you're not wanting to take any of it. You'd be wise to listen to Randy and Dave, but I doubt you will.

im taking the advice but id like to keep the build at a 545, and looking at 600+hp it looks like you cant get that power from d3ve or d0ve with out porting and valves ect.. when that costs 1300-1400 bucks to get that power and no room for growing, or spend extra 700 bucks and have out of the box, lighter heads, that look better for car showing with tons of room to grow

it looks like im going blue thunder dual quad with calibrated holly carbs & linage ported to match trickflow heads, and the trick flow heads ..... now what cam would be good for street use around 306ish duration (car shows /weekends) ?? custom grind able?? and around 600lift does this cause " parts wear"? or can i shoot for 600+ lift with no problems and wear ? it will only be driven max of 2k miles/year

______________
www.rmcompetition.com

Talk to Randy, and listen to what he says......

If you want a sound get a comp cams thumper cam. gonna suffer on the power a bit but you will have your rumpdy thump thump. Probably a ton of torque too. Sounds like your at the same point now that i was when i first came to this site. Only advice i can give is please listen to what these guys have to say.

thanks,

Matt

If sound is what you are after, go ahead and build as you please with the components that you have chosen. It will make the noise you are after. Will it perform properly? IDK A 521ci engine with a 4.3" crank, SCJ heads, and a decent cam with about a 260" @.050 will get the power you are after. More duration on the cam = a higher power band and nasty street manners even with a stall converter. 600hp on the street is not near as fun to drive as you may think. The HP is not the bad thing here, the TQ these engines develop is what is not to be taken lightly. You will have Johnny Law breathing down your neck every time you try to accelerate and the tires come unglued. I'm not trying to bust your balls here, just giving you some honest to goodness been there advice. I'd lower the output of the engine a little, and keep the fun in the ride, and not worry about the sound. These engines sound good even with a milder cam.

Hey if all you are wanting is snap crackle pop get a rice Burner and put a huge Fart can on it......

What you don't realize is these engines have way more power and torque than you will be able to handle in any form.... when you blip the throttle it will be in the ditch before you can get out of it.......I just hope you have enough sense to take it to the track instead of building it to street race or make sure your not going to kill someone....

off my soap box now....

JMHO
Randy

" SCJs are good for a 460 but not as good as the trick flow for the 545"
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The TFS are great heads but, they are not better than SCJs . Either head will do what you want to do and then some.

This might seem a little harsh but you don't want to listen and you are using carcraft as your BBF source. Two of the best decisions for failure. Who the hell buys a camshaft based on a you tube video? Everything effects the power curve as well as the sound. The headers, brand, type, length, size, the exhaust, the tail pipes, where they exit, the list goes on and on like the sound equipment that recorded the sound, the speakers in your computer. It is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

As far as heads, buy some SCJ's from Lem here. They are by far the best bang for the buck. Who buys Blue Thunder heads now a days unless there is a class restriction. The Edelbrocks can be made to go fast buy why limit yourself to a small head. You want big cubes but then you want to choke it down with a crappy head. It just makes no sense. Listen to the people above because they won't steer you wrong.

Lem Evans wrote:" SCJs are good for a 460 but not as good as the trick flow for the 545"
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The TFS are great heads but, they are not better than SCJs . Either head will do what you want to do and then some.

Lem, Being the lower hspr goal, dollar for dollar don't you think it would be enough to meet 600hspr. The TFS could make more but he is only after 600.

okay guys building a 545 stroker and using blue thunder dual quad intake , what heads and cam would you use to hit my 600hp goal with a awesome choppy idol such as the 306S cam i want a hydrolic flat tappet cam , and aluminum heads and what stall in a c6?? also with a c6 you lose 26% of HP from the ground cause its so heavy...
how much torque could i possibly be looking at?

im not so much worried about tire spin, ill have strange shocks, struts, ( 10 settings ) springs, k-member, a arms, subframe connectors, and the pro launch #1 package from baselinesuspension.com , and tubbing to fit mickey thompson street drag radials with 12.8" tread , with all this is should have minimal tire spin,

superfox90 wrote:okay guys building a 545 stroker and using blue thunder dual quad intake , what heads and cam would you use to hit my 600hp goal with a awesome choppy idol such as the 306S cam i want a hydrolic flat tappet cam , and aluminum heads and what stall in a c6?? also with a c6 you lose 26% of HP from the ground cause its so heavy...
how much torque could i possibly be looking at?

im not so much worried about tire spin, ill have strange shocks, struts, ( 10 settings ) springs, k-member, a arms, subframe connectors, and the pro launch #1 package from baselinesuspension.com , and tubbing to fit mickey thompson street drag radials with 12.8" tread , with all this is should have minimal tire spin,

You truly don't have a clue, do you? Where are you getting all this information? You came here for advise(or so you say), but I get the feeling you just want everyone to agree with you. Build what you want, then when it doesn't perform as you expect it to, you'll be back wondering why. Good luck with this deal, you're going to need a bunch of it

Procomp for the win!!!!!!!...............

Hahaha! pro comp for the win! I used the Blue Thunder dual quad intake with a pair of 660 holleys and aluminum SCJ's in a 3500 lb car....went 10:64 @ 122 spinning the cam was a solid roller that for used in there 521 crate engine. It was fine the first year, but I trashed the bearing journal. since then i sold the intake and cam. bought a victor intake and a CUSTOM CAM from LEM EVANS! please listen to these guys! THEY KNOW THERE SHIT!

'65 T-BOLT wrote:Hahaha! pro comp for the win! I used the Blue Thunder dual quad intake with a pair of 660 holleys and aluminum SCJ's in a 3500 lb car....went 10:64 @ 122 spinning the cam was a solid roller that for used in there 521 crate engine. It was fine the first year, but I trashed the bearing journal. since then i sold the intake and cam. bought a victor intake and a CUSTOM CAM from LEM EVANS! please listen to these guys! THEY KNOW THERE SHIT!

yeah i wanna keep the blue thunder dual quad intake for show port to match SCJs, looks like im going to 4.3 not 4.5 with a pair of SCJs and the dished out diamond pistons to hit the 9.5:1-10:1 ish range , and cam wise im looking at the Lunati #416A5LUN ( solid lifter ) this a good cam? or get one custom?

It could be better but, at least you'll now be in the right ballpark, LOL.

i am not one to say if it is the right choice for cam selection...Randy said it ..."you are in the ball park now" and yes make sure it is for the cj/scj ports...the intake that is. my heads were opened up to about the size of a soda can on the intake....they are huge