IGNITION TIMING - ANY DYNO INFO ?

Just looking for someone who has some experience on a dyno, We just built a 429 deal with dove-c heads. looking to find out where total timing should be for the dove plug locations.
Thanks in advance for the help.

Looked for old posts but no luck.

33 to 36 total depending on pistons.

Old scj pistons (forged) flat top one eye browe

should like the lower end of what I posted. but you'll have to try it, make a pass, and do it again to find what it likes.

Too many variables. I've had iron headed stroker's that liked 28 degrees, iron headed 460's that wanted 40 degrees, and alum headed engines anywhere between. Cam timing, quench, compression, displacement, all play a role. Take it to the track, start with 30 degrees and tune from there.

my 492 iron headed engine liked 38*


Randy

yup no 2 are ever really the same, ive got a iron headed one thats likes 44 total,but its a pump gas engine

Carl wrote:Too many variables. I've had iron headed stroker's that liked 28 degrees, iron headed 460's that wanted 40 degrees, and alum headed engines anywhere between. Cam timing, quench, compression, displacement, all play a role. Take it to the track, start with 30 degrees and tune from there.

I've never seen those extreams, you sure the timing marks where correct? 40 on a ford doesn't sound right.

dfree383 wrote:

Carl wrote:Too many variables. I've had iron headed stroker's that liked 28 degrees, iron headed 460's that wanted 40 degrees, and alum headed engines anywhere between. Cam timing, quench, compression, displacement, all play a role. Take it to the track, start with 30 degrees and tune from there.

I've never seen those extreams, you sure the timing marks where correct? 40 on a ford doesn't sound right.

Yes, I'm sure.

Carl wrote:

dfree383 wrote:

Carl wrote:Too many variables. I've had iron headed stroker's that liked 28 degrees, iron headed 460's that wanted 40 degrees, and alum headed engines anywhere between. Cam timing, quench, compression, displacement, all play a role. Take it to the track, start with 30 degrees and tune from there.

I've never seen those extreams, you sure the timing marks where correct? 40 on a ford doesn't sound right.

Yes, I'm sure.

sounds like something was wrong??? Or it was a procomp head with a real big dome like a chevy. The chambers in those heads suck. I've never seen a flat top ford Iron head want that much. Even in domed motors with CJ irons 36 was about right.

dfree383 wrote:

Carl wrote:

dfree383 wrote:

Carl wrote:Too many variables. I've had iron headed stroker's that liked 28 degrees, iron headed 460's that wanted 40 degrees, and alum headed engines anywhere between. Cam timing, quench, compression, displacement, all play a role. Take it to the track, start with 30 degrees and tune from there.

I've never seen those extreams, you sure the timing marks where correct? 40 on a ford doesn't sound right.

Yes, I'm sure.

sounds like something was wrong??? Or it was a procomp head with a real big dome like a chevy. The chambers in those heads suck. I've never seen a flat top ford Iron head want that much. Even in domed motors with CJ irons 36 was about right.

No, nothing was wrong. The combination performed exactly as planned.

very low compression? 7.5-8.5:1?

Carl wrote:

dfree383 wrote:

Carl wrote:Too many variables. I've had iron headed stroker's that liked 28 degrees, iron headed 460's that wanted 40 degrees, and alum headed engines anywhere between. Cam timing, quench, compression, displacement, all play a role. Take it to the track, start with 30 degrees and tune from there.

I've never seen those extreams, you sure the timing marks where correct? 40 on a ford doesn't sound right.

Yes, I'm sure.

LOL.

Mmm, lets think here for just one second. Carl builds crate engines for a living. Carl has done more than his fair share of dyno testing. Is Carl sure? I'm sure he is.

Maybe not on a dyno, but there have been individuals that have gone faster with up to 42-44 degrees and a rich mixture.

Something to think about,

Dave

INteresting....seriously. I wonder what my motor likes....lol

DJOHAGIN wrote:

Carl wrote:

dfree383 wrote:

Carl wrote:Too many variables. I've had iron headed stroker's that liked 28 degrees, iron headed 460's that wanted 40 degrees, and alum headed engines anywhere between. Cam timing, quench, compression, displacement, all play a role. Take it to the track, start with 30 degrees and tune from there.

I've never seen those extreams, you sure the timing marks where correct? 40 on a ford doesn't sound right.

Yes, I'm sure.

LOL.

Mmm, lets think here for just one second. Carl builds crate engines for a living. Carl has done more than his fair share of dyno testing. Is Carl sure? I'm sure he is.

Maybe not on a dyno, but there have been individuals that have gone faster with up to 42-44 degrees and a
rich mixture.

Something to think about,

Dave

thought about it........ If you need that much timing to make

something like a dove headed, flat top motor run. You got something wrong 1) the timing marks are off 2) you have something wrong with the combo 3) your running absolutly horrid swamp gas (detonation likley)

Other things that can contribuite to high timing requirements are very poor dome or excessively high dome designs or ultra low compression (read innefficient)

What 40-44 degrees of timing requirement should tell you is that something way wrong and extreamly inefficient. When motor want less timing to make power that's an indicator of an efficient engine.

I don't car how many crate motors someones built it doesn't make excessive timing correct.

dfree383 wrote:I don't car how many crate motors someones built it doesn't make excessive timing correct.

And I don't care how many magazines you read, or who's coat tails you ride on, it doesn't make you an expert. Your statements make it clear that you don't know what you don't know.

Carl wrote:

dfree383 wrote:I don't car how many crate motors someones built it doesn't make excessive timing correct.

And I don't care how many magazines you read, or who's coat tails you ride on, it doesn't make you an expert. Your statements make it clear that you don't know what you don't know.

and you can go Puck yourself too!!!!

Im stupid on this timing stuff but would altitude play a role in timing ??? Carl from colorado and Dave from Tenn ... just curious .......

But dave why are we lashing out at folks ...there has got to be a reason for the high timing

bruno wrote:Im stupid on this timing stuff but would altitude play a role in timing ??? Carl from colorado and Dave from Tenn ... just curious .......

But dave why are we lashing out at folks ...there has got to be a reason for the high timing

I don't believe I'm the one that started any lashing. You need to enquire Dave and see Carls last statment. I'm still answering the origional question and if that person needs 40+ degrees with a Dove headed flat top engine.... There's something way wrong and definetly not normal. Fact are facts.

dfree383 wrote: thought about it........ If you need that much timing to make

something like a dove headed, flat top motor run. You got something wrong 1) the timing marks are off 2) you have something wrong with the combo 3) your running absolutly horrid swamp gas (detonation likley)

Other things that can contribuite to high timing requirements are very poor dome or excessively high dome designs or ultra low compression (read innefficient)

What 40-44 degrees of timing requirement should tell you is that something way wrong and extreamly inefficient. When motor want less timing to make power that's an indicator of an efficient engine.

I don't car how many crate motors someones built it doesn't make excessive timing correct.

dfree383 wrote:

bruno wrote:Im stupid on this timing stuff but would altitude play a role in timing ??? Carl from colorado and Dave from Tenn ... just curious .......

But dave why are we lashing out at folks ...there has got to be a reason for the high timing

I don't believe I'm the one that started any lashing. You need to enquire Dave and see Carls last statment. I'm still answering the origional question and if that person needs 40+ degrees with a Dove headed flat top engine.... There's something way wrong and definetly not normal. Fact are facts.

You are correct in some regards that for Heli-Arcs engine, 32 should be around optimal. Now, what I was talking about was your blanket statement that 40-44 degrees timing indicates something is wrong with a motor, which is incorrect. Yes, it shows the motor is inefficient in some ways, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong. You give the engine what it wants, not what you think it wants. An engine installed and running, is way different than when it is installed on a dyno, with low water temps and sucking in cooler air. I didn't see any reference to this thread about us only talking about flat-top pistons and DOVE heads, and I think that is where the confusion is at. D3 heads with the TRW full dome pistons like timing, for example.

Dave

Now DJOHAGIN I'm curious as to how many engines you've had on a dyno in the last few years?

dfree383 wrote:Now DJOHAGIN answer a question, how many engines and how much dyno time have you had in the last 5 years? Now about 10 years? How many BBF motors do you own? That you built yourself?

You are right again, dfree. I've never built a 460, never dyno'ed a 460, never owned any 460 or part of, never even driven or been in a 460 equipped car or truck. Here I go again contributing nothing again.

I'll hand the forum back over to you, so you can answer all the questions before anyone can answer? Have I hit the nail on the head again about your MO?

dfree383 wrote:and you can go Puck yourself too!!!!

The only one pucking themselves here is you, BTW.

You still have time to learn, hopefully.

Dave

DJOHAGIN wrote:

dfree383 wrote:Now DJOHAGIN answer a question, how many engines and how much dyno time have you had in the last 5 years? Now about 10 years? How many BBF motors do you own? That you built yourself?

You are right again, dfree. I've never built a 460, never dyno'ed a 460, never owned any 460 or part of, never even driven or been in a 460 equipped car or truck. Here I go again contributing nothing again.

I'll hand the forum back over to you, so you can answer all the questions before anyone can answer? Have I hit the nail on the head again about your MO?

dfree383 wrote:and you can go Puck yourself too!!!!

The only one pucking themselves here is you, BTW.

You still have time to learn, hopefully.


Dave

So you've never owned a 460, never had one on a dyno and your hear offering tuning advice and calling me out? WTF is wrong with you? You some kinda freaking troll or wanabe ??? What's you malfunction numb nuts???

dfree383 wrote:So you've never owned a 460, never had one on a dyno and your hear offering tuning advice and calling me out? WTF is wrong with you? You some kinda freaking troll or wanabe ??? What's you malfunction numb nuts???

You're pretty easy to get eating out of my hands. Do you really believe the above?

I want you to figure out that you're with men. Open your eyes, and look beyond your illusions. I've been taking some of them away from you, and you get pissed about it. Others take it away from you, and you tell them to go puck themselves. Wake up. Listen and learn. The Bible says one man sharpens the face of another. If you can't be sharpened, then you become dull.

I am trying to help you, but you're not understanding.

WAKE UP.

Dave

DJOHAGIN wrote:

dfree383 wrote:So you've never owned a 460, never had one on a dyno and your hear offering tuning advice and calling me out? WTF is wrong with you? You some kinda freaking troll or wanabe ??? What's you malfunction numb nuts???

You're pretty easy to get eating out of my hands. Do you really believe the above?

I want you to figure out that you're with men. Open your eyes, and look beyond your illusions. I've been taking some of them away from you, and you get pissed about it. Others take it away from you, and you tell them to go puck themselves. Wake up. Listen and learn. The Bible says one man sharpens the face of another. If you can't be sharpened, then you become dull.

I am trying to help you, but you're not understanding.

WAKE UP.


Dave

Dave go play your games with someone who gives a shit, your realy not impressive at all. Have a nice day sunshine.