1500+ hp possible?

I've got a BES 645 that made 1300hp. it's setup for nitrous and we're going to have to start spraying it to be sure we qualify everywhere. We started looking at just building a bigger motor and staying NA, but wanted some opinions oh how dificult that would actually be.

My biggest question would be does anyone have any build info for something that made that kind of HP and can it be done without going to a hemi head? we're running gen 1 thor heads now.

Thanks gusy

You will need to go to a hemi head, or spray to get to 1500hp. Jon Kasse is probably the guy you need to visit with.

you don't think it could be done with Gen 2 thors and real high compression? we'll definitly be sticking with BES for our engines though. He's the best engine builder out there. I was kinda thinking a big cam, 16-1 compression and around 750 inches would be able to do it.

I guess you should call up BES and ask his opinion since he's the best engine builder out there............

What kind of times do you need to turn to be at the top of your field ? and what weight are you at ?

I hope i didn't hurt any feelings calling bischoff the best, maybe one of the best would be more appropriate. i didn't realize you were so sensitive
I'm not bashing kaase, he's also one of the best.

The only race we didn't qualify at was joliet where the bump was a 7.04 and we went a 7.10. our race weight is right around 2340 for our NA setup.

The motor is at bes right now getting freshened up after 100 runs and i do plan to talk to them when we pick it up. they are putting the hardline stage back on with roughly a 300 shot. we just needed to make sure to qualify everywhere. I'd like to stay NA cause it's so much easier at the track. there's no bottles to get ready, nitrous pressure to check, you have to bring so much more with you. this season running NA we just check the valves and look at a spark plug once or twice a weekend.

86bigblockbird wrote:I hope i didn't hurt any feelings calling bischoff the best, maybe one of the best would be more appropriate. i didn't realize you were so sensitive
I'm not bashing kaase, he's also one of the best.

The only race we didn't qualify at was joliet where the bump was a 7.04 and we went a 7.10. our race weight is right around 2340 for our NA setup.

The motor is at bes right now getting freshened up after 100 runs and i do plan to talk to them when we pick it up. they are putting the hardline stage back on with roughly a 300 shot. we just needed to make sure to qualify everywhere. I'd like to stay NA cause it's so much easier at the track. there's no bottles to get ready, nitrous pressure to check, you have to bring so much more with you. this season running NA we just check the valves and look at a spark plug once or twice a weekend.

not sensitive here ....... so what are the diff between the 2 generation thor cylinder heads ?

These IDT heads are maybe the next generation of wedge heads and they have castings ready for machining. They flow over 600cfm should get a guy close to 1500hp or more with the cubes you have. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Induction-Dynamics-Technology-Engineering-and-Racing/150867588310442#!/media/set/?set=a.150868831643651.32842.150867588310442&type=3

If I remember correctly Jay @ IDT told me they done a 520ish cid with these heads and it made over 1300hp and without much cam, which is impressive.

Honnestly i don't know what the all the diffs are. something about the chambers being a little different and the exhaust ports are a little higher.

My goal is to be able to go 6.8s in any weather which would take right around 1500 horses at 2340. the nitrous min is 2450 though so we'll be heavier when we're spraying.

It may not be worth it unless we end up hurting this motor, but the of season lets my mind wander alot more than it should.

86bigblockbird wrote:Honnestly i don't know what the all the diffs are. something about the chambers being a little different and the exhaust ports are a little higher.

My goal is to be able to go 6.8s in any weather which would take right around 1500 horses at 2340. the nitrous min is 2450 though so we'll be heavier when we're spraying.

It may not be worth it unless we end up hurting this motor, but the of season lets my mind wander alot more than it should.

Tony ran a 647 Thor in Pro 5.0 about 5 years ago in a Haas Cougar. I saw it run some 6.50's @ Atco, Tunnel with 2 foggers. Hasn't he mentioned that? They still have the Cougar with a GM Hemi in it now for ADRL. Saw it at Maple Grove this past summer.

It was actually a 645, this is that same motor. he had 4 kits on it at one time and went low 4s in the 1/8th

I would think that if you have an engine builder that you like and respect, you should approach him with your goals and figure it out with him. I still don't know that even with the Gen II Thor's and a lot of squeeze and CI that you could get to that 1500hp mark. I would think that it would take on the top side of 650cfm intake flow to get to your goal.

Andy,

IMO there is not enough difference between the Gen 1 heads and the Gen 2 heads to warrant making the switch to them, however Tony has the final word on that matter. I assume you all have already done the 60 mm. cam and the .937 Jessel lifters on that engine. I'd go ahead and give consideration to just spraying it a little. A little bit of spray goes a long way towards helping these cars pick up. Furthermore, the odds are that you will not encounter another "killer" field like what you did at Joliet. Tony can also give you some advice on the IDT 1500 Hedge heads that Dennis mentioned previously.

Charlie Evans

I'd like to apologize for coming off like a jerk, I didn't intend to, but after re-reading my post I reall think I did. What I intended to say was I'm having my motor freshened up and one stage of n2o put on which should allow us to qualify anywhere unless something crazy happens. If we decide the nitrous isnt for us and we want to go back to NA is it possible to make 1500 horses without a hemi head. I do plan to talk to tony when we go and pick up the motor, but I just wanted to see if anyone on here hadq heard of or had any experience with something with that kind of horse power

Thanks for all the advice, those IDT heads look pretty killer I'd like some more info about them. Also any guesses how many cubic inches Thor gen I heads can support? We talked with tony about making the 645 a max effort NA deal, but with a bigger cam, more compression and there is room for 14 more cubic inches it still wouldnt be "enough" to get us into the sixes unless the air was perfect.

Anyway, thanks again for all the replies and sorry again for being a jerk earlier.

Well at Beech Bend this year, one of our fellow BB Ford competitors was running a 706" engine with C-460 heads and qualified. A few years ago when Jon Kaase built the Aronson's Thor headed engine it was a 700" engine and did quite well, making 1404 Hp. So, I'd say your Thor heads can safely handle a 704 to 750" engine. To do those big CID engines you all will have to switch to the tall deck alum. blocks.

Charlie

Don't sweat it too hard, it isn't easy to come off right on a keyboard always, and most guys here know that. We are here to help each other out and get where we want to with our stuff too. As far as how many ci those Thor's can support, I would think that they would work on anything 600 on up. I think that they are recommended on 650ci and up, and I have no doubt that a 700 would love them too. There are a couple guys that I know that have had experience with the big hemi stuff on here, Nevs, Joe Mayab, and BOSS429. They might chime in here yet.

Uncle Charlie treed me.

what did I miss? lol. Its ok, I just got back from the chassis shop so I'm all worm and fuzzy now............

Hard to read emotions through a monitor, its all good.............