598 cid Profiler 205 head

So we had a problem with oiling, so going back through the short block. In the mean time, I grabbed my old block, the cylinder heads, and the intake + carbs so I can get some headers built at the chassis shop + set up the motor plate in the car and determine what I am going to do with the hood.

Its been a long time, hopefully I can get everything done, hit the dyno again, and go racing by end of June.

The Chevy cowl hood will not clear the intake & carbs??

not the front carb, the rear one yes

Looks fantastic

psfracer wrote:not the front carb, the rear one yes  

Who needs a hood looks bad ass without one!!!!

hey, what weight do you think you could get one of these down to without using plastic windows and fiberglass doors? is your car stock suspension or ladder bar?
I am thinking about building another car and i like this body style but don't want another heavy car.

wayne

psfracer wrote:I have a good idea using the 2013 rules:

Base weight for under 600cid = 3100 lbs

Add 10% for sheet metal intake (598 X 10% = 59.8lbs)
Add 25% for profiler head (598 X 25% = 149.5lbs)
Deduct 15% for powerglide trans (598 X 15% = -89.7lbs)

SO……  3100 + 60 + 150 - 90 = 3220 lbs.   My car last time I weighed it was already 3340lbs (with me in it), so not worried about the weight penalties the profiler head has as I am overweight anyway, and I don't want to cut up the car anymore, I enjoy the "factory" look.  

wayney wrote:hey, what weight do you think you could get one of these down to without using plastic windows and fiberglass doors? is your car stock suspension or ladder bar?
I am thinking about building another car and i like this body style but don't want another heavy car.

wayne

psfracer wrote:I have a good idea using the 2013 rules:

Base weight for under 600cid = 3100 lbs

Add 10% for sheet metal intake (598 X 10% = 59.8lbs)
Add 25% for profiler head (598 X 25% = 149.5lbs)
Deduct 15% for powerglide trans (598 X 15% = -89.7lbs)

SO……  3100 + 60 + 150 - 90 = 3220 lbs.   My car last time I weighed it was already 3340lbs (with me in it), so not worried about the weight penalties the profiler head has as I am overweight anyway, and I don't want to cut up the car anymore, I enjoy the "factory" look.  

My 2008 with lex windows, glass hood and deck, full tube with factory firewall is about 3100

Update!?!?

Update???

He hasn't been here in over a year

He’s been posting race pics on facebook

Tell him we're patiently waiting Dave. That car is NICE!!

Well it will finally hit the dyno next week. Last couple years I was sidetracked by quads, guns, kayaks, some travel and photography. But the day is actually coming - I will update everything next week and report some numbers. A lot of changes to which I will cover.

Good to see you back here Paul.

So everything changed vs when I started this build - maybe should start a new thread and delete this one, but here is how this all ended up.  While I have posted the dyno vid elsewhere, this is the only place I will post the engine build specifics.

Final engine combo ended up being:

4.670 Bore X 4.500 Stroke = 616 cid
Crower billet crank
Diamond Pistons - 16.3 to 1 ended up being the final compression ratio
GRP Aluminum rods - 6.76 long
Profiler 205 heads with 2.45 intake / 1.88 exhaust valves - Victory titanium
Twin 1150 Dominators modified by Carb Shop
Hogan sheetmetal intake - this was the source of some concern based on the small plenum.  Engine builder thought there was a legitimate 40+ horsepower to be had by going with a much larger plenum.

Valvetrain:
Jesel rocker arms - 1.8 ratio - the stand for all rockers on each side is 1 piece - I really like that.  Even my T&D rockers had separate stands that bolted to the once piece intake stand.  
60 mm cam - with the modified firing order where #2 and #8 are switched (15486372)
Cam specs (general) - over .900 lift on both intake / exhaust - big duration with more on the exhaust, a wider lobe separation then you might think due to this being a heavy power glide car.  
Jesel keyway lifters, lifter bores bushed for the keyway lifters
Manton pushrods
Manley Nextex springs with 450 on the seat, 1050 open.

Other notes:
Note that the exhaust on the dyno is actually my front exit headers for the car - we actually just turned them upside down to make them rear exit, for the dyno. You can see the last picture what the exhaust looks like in the car. The mufflers are actually V-banded on right after the collector. The mufflers are little 9" long Vibrant mufflers.


Power:

This combo resulted in basically 1,000 hp at 5900 rpm (996.2 actual) and 1,100 hp at 6,800 rpm and 1188 hp at 7,800 rpm -- still climbing but I didn't want to beat the engine on the dyno.
Peak torque was 887 ft-lbs at 5,900 rpm.  

Once I get this thing down the track a few times and seeing where I end up - I might change the intake - I might not.   Right now I just want to race, and if the car will already do 8.50s the way it is now, I probably won't change anything as the car will only cert to 8.50 right now anyway.   We will see what happens here in the next couple weeks.  At 7,000 rpm, this combo has over 200 more hp than the old combo.  

Some pictures.   I will add a dyno video also.  







And after a couple days working on the car (installing the engine, headers, and then all of the small stuff) - here is what it looks like now:



Final thoughts:

I think the Ford C460 heads would have done just as well -- probably better as I could have gotten a set brand new and the heads could have been worked with the exact combo in mind.  However I obviously don't have any specific info on the new profiler 221 head -- the ones on this build was the older profiler 205s.

If I decide I want more power in the future, first thing will be to get a new intake manifold.   I got this one for a deal, used.  I had a budget you know, so I tried to save a little money where I could, which ended up costing some power.   This combo really should be 1200+ pretty easily.

Here is a couple dyno pulls.

Looks great

Looks and sounds awesome Paul!!

Those Profiler heads are too big period and dead. They won't do well on any size engine. Probably good for Nitrous. The Ford C-460 head is much better.

I am inclined to agree with you.   I am starring at some C460 heads right now, the intake side looks very similar but the exhaust ports on the profiler are significantly larger (perhaps too big), which I agree would probably work well with a heavy nitrous application. But for an all-motor type application, I think the C460 would definitely work better based on my results when compared to other C460 builds of similar caliber.

So, if your engine guy did not like the plenum volume....why did he not request a thicker spacer?

Lem Evans wrote:So, if your engine guy did not like the plenum volume....why did he not request a thicker spacer?

At some point I just had to stick at what I had because of my budget.  I already spent a ton of money and I don't have money growing on trees.   I would have went dry sump also if I would have been willing to spend more money, but I was already over what I wanted to spend and had to hold the line somewhere.

I have had similar questions about other things, I don't know why people assume I had an unlimited budget or open checkbook.

The intake will be changed, but next year.  Right now I just want to finish the car up (next weekend) and get back on the track after a 3+ year absence.

What do you think the power difference would be between the Profiler 205 heads and C 460's ??

psfracer wrote:

At some point I just had to stick at what I had because of my budget.  I already spent a ton of money and I don't have money growing on trees.   I would have went dry sump also if I would have been willing to spend more money, but I was already over what I wanted to spend and had to hold the line somewhere.

I have had similar questions about other things, I don't know why people assume I had an unlimited budget or open checkbook.

That's probably because your car is so nice it looks like you have no budget. When your car looks like you got it from a scrap pile people will cut you some slack.

Paul, I didn't assume anything about your budget. I'm sorry if you thought I did.

A jig saw and a piece of 5/8" plywood wood suffice to do a test to see if that was the right direction.

I doubt a dry sump system would move the needle much.

Do you have a 'fox' style pan?