Kicking around a new intake setup idea

gt350hr wrote:        The dual plane Blue thunder intake is a bad choice for EFI  . A single plane (I.E, tunnel ram base) is far better.

That half truth has been running the internet for years. Only reason single plane intakes were originally chosen was it is easier to convert to EFI because all runners are the same height. Being it is dry air, runner length and plenum volume are more important rather than if it is duel plane or single plane. Using the tunnel ram base is going to shift the rpm range and loss of low end torque.

One of the members here has successfully converted an RPM Air Gap.

Like I said in the beginning that I don't think there would be any major performance gain over other options in this range. It is just something different. Although it might fool me.

If I was a rich man I would build a mule motor and run back to back comparisons just swapping intakes and adjusting the tune.

I didn't say it couldn't be done , just it was a bad choice versus a straight runner "base". "Dual plane" design is not necessary without a carburetor . Look at purpose designed EFI intakes, none are "dual plane" design ( that I've seen anyway).

gt350hr wrote: Look at purpose designed EFI intakes, none are "dual plane" design ( that I've seen anyway).

Because it is easier and cheaper to purpose design a single plane intake for EFI.

Cfi , cars and trucks had a dual plane intake deal.... but that's CFI stuff

gmsmkr wrote:Cfi , cars and trucks had a dual plane intake deal.... but that's CFI stuff

CFI?

An update to make everyone happy. I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier.

Holley makes a blank top for configuring your own carb mounting. This blank top will be flipped and become the bottom or base. The original top will still be the top. This will allow the bottom to be configured for any intake carb spacing and even be able to be configured to mount on top of the Weiand tunnel ram base.

While inside the base, ram tube extensions can be fitted so the port length can be tuned, aka Mod Motor style.

The only other machining that will be needed is to clearance the mounting holes in the base to the top. They come taped just like top. Also an oring groove will need to be machined in the base for sealing with the top.

This means adaptable to any intake and at most just 3 different bases. NO WELDING!! Simple machining. The runner extensions are already available in a composite.

Holley 300-217
https://www.holley.com/products/intakes/intake_components/parts/300-217

SandHillsHillbilly wrote:

gmsmkr wrote:Cfi , cars and trucks had a dual plane intake deal.... but that's CFI stuff

CFI?

Yep CFI..

gmsmkr wrote:

SandHillsHillbilly wrote:

gmsmkr wrote:Cfi , cars and trucks had a dual plane intake deal.... but that's CFI stuff

CFI?

Yep CFI..

As in meaning Who is CFI? I don't recognize the initials.

It's called CFI injection came on ford's at one point in time

I got my hands on some pics of an actual what I would call an off the shelf SpeedMaster aka ProComp dual quad intake.

I don't like it is about the nicest way I can say it.
Obvious it is not a dual plane intake like the Blue Thunder Dual Quad. It is just a big GIANT plenum. LOTS of porosity!! Look at holes on carb pads and back right injector spot. Looks as if casting could be shifted by looking at how much off center some of the bolt holes and injector spots are. Appears they did not completely machine the face of the the thermostat housing mounting surface, rough casting still left. And can anyone even explain to me about their temp sensor mounting? It appears 1/8 inch and I have no idea what that raised pad beside it is for. No bypass nipple.


Bottom side doesn't look too bad. China wall seal pads look good. Appears someone tried to do a little port matching.

Was looking into this setup myself. I saw a two plane dual quad intake on eBay (new, CNC machined in USA).
Since my build will be street driven and is a stick shift, I think that the two plane will be a much better choice over an open plenum or single plane as the rpm range is there at the lower end. Going for an off idle to 4500 rpm. Has to have good drivability.
Found a source for both 36-1 trigger/crank spacers and cam synch's for the 385's. Nice looking setups.
Www. dragonfabrication.com. My local machinist fell through for making an adapter for my v6 cam synch and spacer with ring for attaching a 36-1 wheel from a EC-5 ford.

For Danny Cabral, couldn't make a jig to drill injector bungs in the intake (performer) after I welded it up. Machine work costs a fortune these days, unless you know someone. But I ordered some alum bungs from Ross Machine and came up with a way to hold the bungs at req'd angle and spacing so the fuel rails will line up after I drill them. Thanks for your advice and the pics.
MikeH

talonhead wrote:Was looking into this setup myself. I saw a two plane dual quad intake on eBay (new, CNC machined in USA).
Since my build will be street driven and is a stick shift, I think that the two plane will be a much better choice over an open plenum or single plane as the rpm range is there at the lower end. Going for an off idle to 4500 rpm. Has to have good drivability.
Found a source for both 36-1 trigger/crank spacers and cam synch's for the 385's. Nice looking setups.
Www. dragonfabrication.com. My local machinist fell through for making an adapter for my v6 cam synch and spacer with ring for attaching a 36-1 wheel from a EC-5 ford.

For Danny Cabral, couldn't make a jig to drill injector bungs in the intake (performer) after I welded it up. Machine work costs a fortune these days, unless you know someone. But I ordered some alum bungs from Ross Machine and came up with a way to hold the bungs at req'd angle and spacing so the fuel rails will line up after I drill them. Thanks for your advice and the pics.
MikeH

http://dragonfabrication.com/product.php?product=DF200102


$345 for a crank trigger? Just take a holley wheel (or other), drill four mounting holes in it and mount it on the balancer.



Price Motorsports makes a cam sensor as well.

https://www.429-460.com/t11031-cam-sensor-for-460



Big Block Ranger made a jig for drilling the holes? http://www.460ford.com/forum/37-engine-tech/102034-homestyle-efi-bung-install-victor-its-cinch.html

That Pro Comp intake looks like shit!....and probably performs like it too.

BBFTorino wrote:That Pro Comp intake looks like shit!....and probably performs like it too.

For those that don't know already. Those eBay intakes that are listed as CNC machined in USA are ProComp Chinese crap castings that are so porous you could use them for a showerhead!

Attached is a link to the intake I was talking about. Asked several questions via the eBay tool over the weekend, not expecting to get an answer until this week. We went back and forth all weekend. This intake is a 2 plane dual quad for SCJ heads (regular head type available also). The carb decks are parallel & level with each other. The pads are angled in relation to engine.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Machined-Ford-429-460-Dual-Quad-8V-Intake-Manifold-With-Cobra-Jet-Ports-/282047426619?hash=item41ab56303b

I think the Holley adapter and top would work. The carb decks are centered the same. The mounting holes may need some adjustment of some type. Having hands on both would be necessary (or at least tracings of both units).

I looked at the Price site. I do like the looks of their Synch unit.
As it might be awhile before I actually have an engine assembled to accept these items, I'm debating the trigger in front/behind the balancer.

For now I will continue to work on my Performer intake. I have the drill for injectors (this can be used for manifold or rails. Injector ends are the same. As mentioned above, it's better to have the step in the rail hole to perform as a stop. Then have a hold down of some kind to keep the rail in place. Fuel spraying on a hot engine tends to ruin the day. I got my -9 rails with ends drilled/threaded/and o-ring bosses cut for less than the cost of the o-ring boss cutter. The drill & tap were less than $30 ea., however the boss cutter was over $200! The injector drill was $50~.
Trying to determine the best angle to 'aim' the injectors. I can do either epoxy or TIG. Probably will be determined by how much slop winds up around the bungs trying to get them fit. It may be a little easier as the ends of my runners are somewhat built up. We shall see.

Yep that is a ProComp casting. You can tell in the pics it is a bad casting. Look at the thermostat housing pad, choke heater pad, and the head side flanges. There wasn't enough material to reach the dimensions without leaving casting material. This will cause sealing problems due to those low spots. Yeah it might have been CNC machined in USA but it was cast in China. CNC doesn't mean that it has perfect machining, just means all of them were machined the same.

talonhead wrote:Attached is a link to the intake I was talking about. Asked several questions via the eBay tool over the weekend, not expecting to get an answer until this week. We went back and forth all weekend. This intake is a 2 plane dual quad for SCJ heads (regular head type available also). The carb decks are parallel & level with each other. The pads are angled in relation to engine.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Machined-Ford-429-460-Dual-Quad-8V-Intake-Manifold-With-Cobra-Jet-Ports-/282047426619?hash=item41ab56303b

I think the Holley adapter and top would work. The carb decks are centered the same. The mounting holes may need some adjustment of some type. Having hands on both would be necessary (or at least tracings of both units).

I looked at the Price site. I do like the looks of their Synch unit.
As it might be awhile before I actually have an engine assembled to accept these items, I'm debating the trigger in front/behind the balancer.

SandHillsHillbilly wrote:Yep that is a ProComp casting. You can tell in the pics it is a bad casting. Look at the thermostat housing pad, choke heater pad, and the head side flanges. There wasn't enough material to reach the dimensions without leaving casting material. This will cause sealing problems due to those low spots. Yeah it might have been CNC machined in USA but it was cast in China. CNC doesn't mean that it has perfect machining, just means all of them were machined the same.

The intake link above is NOT a pro comp intake. It is a Blue Thunder intake.

I would expect a better casting from BT and why does the seller not state them as BT?

X2 it's a Blue Thunder piece

Well, it’s been awhile. Between being ill and hurt, it’s been a long road back. Just to clear up some stuff.
New efi uses a tunable runner port. Ford started late ‘90’s-2K’s. Low rpms long runner, higher rpms a solenoid opened a shorter path.
The Holley EFI adapter will fit the BT dual plane 2x4 SCJ intake.
The link to pics shows my new BT intake, Holley 2x4/efi adapter, FPP SCJ-A heads and Ross fuel rails
https://imgur.com/gallery/LouLsbP
MikeH

talonhead wrote:. Machine work costs a fortune these days,
MikeH

Doing it right the first time is very cost effective.

talonhead wrote:Well, it’s been awhile. Between being ill and hurt, it’s been a long road back. Just to clear up some stuff.
New efi uses a tunable runner port. Ford started late ‘90’s-2K’s. Low rpms long runner, higher rpms a solenoid opened a shorter path.
The Holley EFI adapter will fit the BT dual plane 2x4 SCJ intake.
The link to pics shows my new BT intake, Holley 2x4/efi adapter, FPP SCJ-A heads and Ross fuel rails
https://imgur.com/gallery/LouLsbP
MikeH

Welcome back Mike!! Glad you are doing better.
You just took this thread to a whole new level!

WOW! Glad to see the Holley Base matches up with the BT intake. It looks like the bores line up. Can't tell from the angle of the pics but do the mounting holes in the base line up with the carb mounting holes in the intake as well?

I see the tilt on the carb pads doesn't effect the mounting. Definitely have to run coil on plug, no room for a dizzy. What about the thermostat housing? Looks like it might be ok.

Concerned about injectors on some of the runners. 1,4,6, & 7 the backside of the injector bung might be tight against the runner. I would go with straight up or maybe leaned slightly inward.

My life has drifted away from my own projects and have been working on Blown Hemi Pro Mod motors. Hope to some day come back to my projects.
Shameless Plug!
https://www.facebook.com/RageFuelSystemsInc/

The carb pads are flat, true and parallel and is a standard 2x4 center (8.5”?) with 2 standard bolt patterns.
The t-stat housing is no prob.
In final trim, will be running a cam sync for SEFI. EDIS 8 w/ 2x quad pack coils.
Picked up some fabricated alum valve covers.
Have to find injector bung drill. Probably in storage:(
Just received my rolls of 1/2” & 3/8” copper/nickel fuel line for upgrading supply and return, feeding a BBF vs. V6 (even if it was blown) will need more fuel.
Need to get a new upgraded hp internal fuel pump and some AN- bulkhead fittings for the tank.
Out for now-
MikeH

Thanks looking forward to seeing your results.

More pics of progress. https://imgur.com/a/uLFK1MB
Drilled right side runners. Put together a jig to keep injectors parallel and straight during fit-up and installation. Think I will see how much more tilt I can get to aim the spray.
MikeH