Increase oil pressure a smidgin'.

I have a standard volume/pressure M84 oil pump in my new 545. All bearing clearances are tight but depending on engine temps I see max pressure at 55-60lbs. Motor spins to 6500 and I would feel better if I could bump it to about 65lbs+. I set up the pump in an ATF oil bath ,spun it with a drill and the max pressure is just under 60lbs so it's maxing out the stock relief spring when installed but I'd prefer a bit more pressure. The high pressure spring kit is not available here so is it possible to tap the relief spring retaining plug in the pump down a bit and put a shim between it and the cotter pin or is the plug bottomed out against a machined register in the pump body? With the oil bath test bed I can inch worm my way up a bit at at time till it gets where I would like and shim it accordingly. Thanks again.

You could contact Paul Kane as he had kits available at one time.
I may have some shims from previous kits that Ive used but Id have to look.

Appreciate that. I still can't get a connection to his site. The only one ever that won't open on my laptop or phone. Bizarre? The delay to get a kit from him or anything from the US would be an issue anyway. I'm pinched for time to get this turd buttoned up and out of my way. It would have to be sent to Canada (possibly weeks) because with the border closed due to COVID I can't have stuff shipped to my parcel service in the US for pick up. That US/Canada border closure has become a real pain in the arse.

the tree man wrote:I have a standard volume/pressure M84 oil pump in my new 545. All bearing clearances are tight but depending on engine temps I see max pressure at 55-60lbs. Motor spins to 6500 and I would feel better if I could bump it to about 65lbs+. I set up the pump in an ATF oil bath ,spun it with a drill and the max pressure is just under 60lbs so it's maxing out the stock relief spring when installed but I'd prefer a bit more pressure. The high pressure spring kit is not available here so is it possible to tap the relief spring retaining plug in the pump down a bit and put a shim between it and the cotter pin or is the plug bottomed out against a machined register in the pump body? With the oil bath test bed I can inch worm my way up a bit at at time till it gets where I would like and shim it accordingly. Thanks again.

Ford Motorsport used to sell a high pressure spring for a Cleveland pump  which also works in a 460 pump. It was merely a high volume, high pressure spring which was now to be used in a standard volume pump.

Send me your address and 5 bucks for shipping and I'll send you one. ... M-6670-A351
Mail is even slower to Canada.

If you can get the plug out without deforming it or can get another plug, you can shim the original spring 1/8" with a spacer in the piston. I drill a small hole in the middle and use a slide hammer, then plug that hole with a "pop rivet".

That's great info. Thanks. I have a buddy who's big into Clevelands and I'm sure he has high pressure kits for his stuff. Looks like a beer run is in my future.

I was able to pick up a spring from my buddy today. Unfortunately,it was a Moroso 22850,not the Ford item and the pressure was way too high. I had a tough time hanging onto the pump while spinning it and it was passing 90psi. I now realize how much extra strain is put on the pump drive as the load increases and I was using watery ATF,never mind 20W/50. Even 10 additional psi makes a noticeable difference. I'd be curious how much drag is created by an HV or HV/HP in the syrup? No wonder shafts barber pole and dist gear pins shear. I went back to slowly tapping the welch into the pump and testing. I picked up 10psi with .100 deeper in the pump,stopped there,shimmed it with a washer and that was that. Thanks for the help.

Good to hear I was gonna suggest making your own shim. lol

Just how "tight" are your bearing clearances?
My experience has been that with 'em too wide, you'll have lower oil pressure.
Too tight and the engine can create its own clearances, generally scattering parts in the process.

If I recall,mains were around .0025+/- and rods were .002+/-. Hot idle was 20-25 depending on engine temp and jumps right up as soon as you touch the pedal. Bearings look like the day I installed them,maybe prettier so I'm probably sweating this for nothing. Just wanted those few extra psi at the top for peace of mind and should be good now.

Sorry I didn’t see this sooner—we have Shim Kits if you’d still like one. Call or PM me and I’ll be happy to discuss your engine combination and set you up with what I think you need.

Thanks,Paul. I have a couple projects on deck and kept your phone number in my Rolodex,still can't get your site to load up here,but I wish I would have budgeted more time for this oil leak repair anyway. Getting all parts in a timely fashion to my Canadian hands has been an issue,especially with the continued border closure preventing me crossing to my US parcel service,but I think I fudged my way to a satisfactory end.

the tree man wrote:Thanks,Paul. I have a couple projects on deck and kept your phone number in my Rolodex,still can't get your site to load up here,but I wish I would have budgeted more time for this oil leak repair anyway. Getting all parts in a timely fashion to my Canadian hands has been an issue,especially with the continued border closure preventing me crossing to my US parcel service,but I think I fudged my way to a satisfactory end.

Anything you can ship in a small package or envelope via USPS (mail) usually gets there pretty quick if it's shipped as a present. A shim should fit in an envelope I would think.

Usually is the key word here. lol. We shipped both ways for the Christmas season and had some stuff in days and some stuff took 3 weeks.

Did I miss it ?

What weight oil are you running ?

20W/50 Valvoline VR-1 for the SFT cam.

Thanks.

Glad you got it worked out.

We all like to see the oil psi up there by 30 psi minimum, but I've been told that idle psi at 20 isn't bad and if the gauge starts moving with rpm and is up at 30 psi by 1,500 or so All is fine.

I just don't like the way it looks.


IF you can't get Paul's web page to load try it on FireFox.

I spin my 393C - soon to be a 427W - with race bearing clearances to 7200. Oil pressure at 180F runs about 55 psi. Run 10w-30 VR1 race oil. So I wouldn't worry much about those numbers of yours.

the tree man wrote:I have a standard volume/pressure M84 oil pump in my new 545. All bearing clearances are tight but depending on engine temps I see max pressure at 55-60lbs. Motor spins to 6500 and I would feel better if I could bump it to about 65lbs+. I set up the pump in an ATF oil bath ,spun it with a drill and the max pressure is just under 60lbs so it's maxing out the stock relief spring when installed but I'd prefer a bit more pressure. The high pressure spring kit is not available here so is it possible to tap the relief spring retaining plug in the pump down a bit and put a shim between it and the cotter pin or is the plug bottomed out against a machined register in the pump body? With the oil bath test bed I can inch worm my way up a bit at at time till it gets where I would like and shim it accordingly. Thanks again.

I don't see an issue with 55-60 PSI maximum pressure. As you've noted, increasing maximum pressure increases the power / parasitic losses it takes to drive it.

Questions:

1. At what RPM does the pressure hit maximum?
   
2. What's your hot idle oil pressure?
   
3. Cold start oil pressure?
   

G-Code wrote:IF you can't get Paul's web page to load try it on FireFox.

The problem with loading Paul's site (http://www.highflowdynamics.com/) is that it's running HTTP, not HTTPS. Browsers consider that as 'not secure' and have been getting tougher and tougher about allowing HTTP webpages to load. I tried Chrome, Vivaldi, Firefox and Edge and none of them would load the site.

Bottom line: The answer is for Paul to get HTTPS enabled for his site.

Hot idle (1050 rpm) was about 25lbs+/- depending on engine temp and it maxed out around 5000,again depending on engine temps. It jumps to about 40psi at 2500 or so and cold start was about 65psi. I'm comfortable with the slight bump from the shim. Now that the rear seal issue is resolved and the pan is back on I'm going to prime the motor with fresh oil so I'll see what happens. If I do anything with Paul in the future I'll just phone him.

All that sounds good from here. Most of my 351c's run 70 psi cold, 25-30 hot idle, 60 above 2500 hot. That said, drove a 67 Mustang 302 for 2 years as a daily driver with 10 psi cold on 20w-50, virtually zero hot. Sounded like a muted diesel thanks to bearing clearances. No problems.

the tree man wrote:Hot idle (1050 rpm) was about 25lbs+/- depending on engine temp and it maxed out around 5000,again depending on engine temps. It jumps to about 40psi at 2500 or so and cold start was about 65psi. I'm comfortable with the slight bump from the shim. Now that the rear seal issue is resolved and the pan is back on I'm going to prime the motor with fresh oil so I'll see what happens. If I do anything with Paul in the future I'll just phone him.

My pressures are similar, but I'm getting 25 PSI at 800 RPM. Running 5W30 full synthetic with a Melling M84HV. Higher volume pump gives me good pressure at idle, even with the thinner oil and, IMO, thinner oil flows and lubricates better when cold. Cold start / fast idle is about 70 PSI.