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Ford Motorsport A460 Heads Reworked with a major issue

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Post  Stimie July 24th 2022, 8:07 pm

Started off with a used set of FMS A460 heads. The heads were bought with the understanding they had 2.35 intake & 1,88 exhaust valves. Well when the heads came in they had 1.94 exhaust valves. Called the seller and he made it right. NO problems with the seller. I checked with my local machine shop and they were not comfortable with installing the 1.88 valves. Did a little research and found a shop that has a very good reputation for doing good work. I spoke with the owner of the shop and he said that he should be able to install the smaller valves, but would have to inspect the heads. He informed me the work should take about 2 months. I received a quote for the work outlining the work that I requested. All was good no issues so far. Well six months later after several emails and phone calls I received an email with the flow numbers and it was what I was expecting. Then I noticed the exhaust valve size 1.94. I tried calling and sending out a email (Friday afternoon) no response. Monday morning I called and the owner of the shop could not get ahold of him, but I did receive an invoice for $500.00 over the quote now mind you that I had already paid the quoted price. I'm not to concerned with the additional cost cause I figured there was going to be some unknown repairs. When I did get ahold of the owner of the shop he informed me that it would cost to much to put the smaller valves in the heads and the 1.94s would work fine. I reminded him that my bore size is 4.390 and the 1.94s were not going to work. The shop owner does not even recognize the fact that I might be right.
The heads came in and the work is outstanding could not ask for better quality work. However they are not what I asked for and will not work for me. Has anyone got advise on how I should proceed?

Stimie

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Join date : 2018-02-25

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Post  rmcomprandy July 24th 2022, 8:21 pm

Stimie wrote:Started off with a used set of FMS A460 heads. The heads were bought with the understanding they had 2.35 intake & 1,88 exhaust valves. Well when the heads came in they had 1.94 exhaust valves. Called the seller and he made it right. NO problems with the seller. I checked with my local machine shop and they were not comfortable with installing the 1.88 valves. Did a little research and found a shop that has a very good reputation for doing good work. I spoke with the owner of the shop and he said that he should be able to install the smaller valves, but would have to inspect the heads. He informed me the work should take about 2 months. I received a quote for the work outlining the work that I requested. All was good no issues so far. Well six months later after several emails and phone calls I received an email with the flow numbers and it was what I was expecting. Then I noticed the exhaust valve size 1.94. I tried calling and sending out a email (Friday afternoon) no response. Monday morning I called and the owner of the shop could not get ahold of him, but I did receive an invoice for $500.00 over the quote now mind you that I had already paid the quoted price. I'm not to concerned with the additional cost cause I figured there was going to be some unknown repairs. When I did get ahold of the owner of the shop he informed me that it would cost to much to put the smaller valves in the heads and the 1.94s would work fine. I reminded him that my bore size is 4.390 and the 1.94s were not going to work.  The shop owner does not even recognize the fact that I might be right.
The heads came in and the work is outstanding could not ask for better quality work. However they are not what I asked for and will not work for me. Has anyone got advise on how I should proceed?      

First ... you should not have accepted them at the time of your original purchase in the first place.

Now, Installing 1.88" diameter valves would probably have involved removing and installing smaller I.D. seats.
This could certainly have been done but, would definitely be costing more.
The shop should have explained this to you so, you could make the decision of what course you wished to take.

That can still be done ... ... two ways; welding the ports to match the seat I.D. or simply remove and replace the seats with a small reverse step under them.

rmcomprandy

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Post  BBFTorino July 30th 2022, 4:07 pm

Notch the top of the cylinder bores for valve clearance like Clevelands have.
Since the valves open away from the cylinder walls, it does'nt take much to give a little room to operate.

BBFTorino

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Post  Doxnoogle July 31st 2022, 7:20 am

BBFTorino wrote:Notch the top of the cylinder bores for valve clearance like Clevelands have.
Since the valves open away from the cylinder walls, it does'nt take much to give a little room to operate.

Cant say it better.

Doxnoogle

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Post  Stimie July 31st 2022, 6:31 pm

BBFTorino wrote:Notch the top of the cylinder bores for valve clearance like Clevelands have.
Since the valves open away from the cylinder walls, it does'nt take much to give a little room to operate.
Sorry for my ignorance I've never had this done before. Is this something most machine shops can do or is it done with a die grinder?

Stimie

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Post  BBFTorino July 31st 2022, 11:38 pm

A shop can do it, or you can do it yourself too. Bolt a cyl. head onto the block (without the crank in it) and from the underside of the cylinder, you should be able to see where the valve will interfere with the cylinder.

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Post  Lem Evans August 1st 2022, 12:24 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
Stimie wrote:Started off with a used set of FMS A460 heads. The heads were bought with the understanding they had 2.35 intake & 1,88 exhaust valves. Well when the heads came in they had 1.94 exhaust valves. Called the seller and he made it right. NO problems with the seller. I checked with my local machine shop and they were not comfortable with installing the 1.88 valves. Did a little research and found a shop that has a very good reputation for doing good work. I spoke with the owner of the shop and he said that he should be able to install the smaller valves, but would have to inspect the heads. He informed me the work should take about 2 months. I received a quote for the work outlining the work that I requested. All was good no issues so far. Well six months later after several emails and phone calls I received an email with the flow numbers and it was what I was expecting. Then I noticed the exhaust valve size 1.94. I tried calling and sending out a email (Friday afternoon) no response. Monday morning I called and the owner of the shop could not get ahold of him, but I did receive an invoice for $500.00 over the quote now mind you that I had already paid the quoted price. I'm not to concerned with the additional cost cause I figured there was going to be some unknown repairs. When I did get ahold of the owner of the shop he informed me that it would cost to much to put the smaller valves in the heads and the 1.94s would work fine. I reminded him that my bore size is 4.390 and the 1.94s were not going to work.  The shop owner does not even recognize the fact that I might be right.
The heads came in and the work is outstanding could not ask for better quality work. However they are not what I asked for and will not work for me. Has anyone got advise on how I should proceed?      

First ... you should not have accepted them at the time of your original purchase in the first place.

Now, Installing 1.88" diameter valves would probably have involved removing and installing smaller I.D. seats.
This could certainly have been done but, would definitely be costing more.
The shop should have explained this to you so, you could make the decision of what course you wished to take.

That can still be done ... ... two ways; welding the ports to match the seat I.D. or simply remove and replace the seats with a small reverse step under them.

Could he have the valve head turned down some and covert to a 50* or 55* valve job?

Lem Evans

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Post  Stimie August 1st 2022, 1:52 pm

Could he have the valve head turned down some and covert to a 50* or 55* valve job?
Yes it is possible that he did covert the valve angle. I'll have to check it out and see. The shop owner said he checked the heads on a fixature plate and there was no interference issues.

Stimie

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Post  Stimie August 1st 2022, 7:51 pm

Lem
You are correct. I checked the exhaust valve grind angle and it is 50 degrees. So with that being said does this correct the issue with unshrouding? While checking the fitment what should I be looking for in clearances?

Stimie

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Post  Lem Evans August 2nd 2022, 9:42 am

Stimie wrote:Lem
     You are correct. I checked the exhaust valve grind angle and it is 50 degrees. So with that being said does this correct the issue with unshrouding? While checking the fitment what should I be looking for in clearances?

Could you have the angle changed was what i was asking.
I see now you can not because it's already been done.

Lem Evans

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