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900-950 hp on street engine naturally aspirated????

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hbstang
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Post  ChrisH Tue 2 Aug 2022 - 23:20

i have a slightly generic build question for pros and those that have may be done it.

i am looking to build a 572-598" engine for a 100% street engine - 500 miles per year
4.600 bore/4.3 stroke is likely.

this will wear TFS A460 heads that C. Evans ported years back. with a TFS dominator intake and 4500 carb of appropriate size.

CR~12:1 (100 octane gas or e85)

my questions lives and dies at the cam. i know the easy answer is of course 572" A head engines can make 900 hp. but i drive street only.
i have been testing with a different engine, similar size build, but D0OE iron heads. the spring package is PAC1243, installed 0.050 tall at 1.950 to get the seat pressure down to 220. cam is (254/272 at 0.050 and 0.700" lift). the roller lifters are holding up to this point. i know many people have tried to make the TFS A head Springs work on the street (250 lb seat) and eventually lifters grenade.

so my question is can enough cam be installed under ported TFS A460 heads and 572" to make lower to mid 900 hp. RPM is rev limited to 7000 and its a stick car. car is < 3500 lbs

no power brakes, current vacuum is only 7.5" so this is not a concern.

i am not opposed to a light ring package if needed, but if not then i would stay with a typical street package . and currently no vacuum pump, just a draft tube.

i have seen many builds that propose this can be done, but the valve spring package is always pushing the boundaries for street miles.

So, is this possible?


BTW, current lifter are 816 comps. needle bearings. this would likely need to change to a better lifter of bronze bushing is my guess.

thank you
for any insight.

chris

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Post  Lem Evans Wed 3 Aug 2022 - 14:01

call me some time

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Post  ChrisH Thu 4 Aug 2022 - 0:05

i will do that. hopefully i will have some time mid day tomorrow

thank you

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Post  stanger68 Thu 4 Aug 2022 - 10:21

There is a build thread from years back in here that did it successfully. I believe it was an A head 557 in yellow 69 ish truck. Claimed 950 on pump gas. I’ll try to find a link later.

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Post  supervel45 Thu 4 Aug 2022 - 12:47

stanger68 wrote:There is a build thread from years back in here that did it successfully. I believe it was an A head 557 in yellow 69 ish truck. Claimed 950 on pump gas. I’ll try to find a link later.

That was an excellent thread and very impressive real build, in my opinion also.

I believe this may be it?

https://www.429-460.com/t14610-dyno-results-a-headed-557-on-91-octane-pump-gas-dyno-update-page-6

It does seem to answer the OP's base question depending on how "street miles" is defined I guess.

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Post  stanger68 Thu 4 Aug 2022 - 17:32

Yes that’s it. I was always a little suspicious if they had the correction factor on the dyno a little generous being at high altitude. But even if it were 800 on pump gas that’s still pretty damn good for pump gas N/A. Plus f you read on down there used to be some pics and video of the guy actually using it on street and driving around a rail job at track which makes it even cooler in a truck no less! Love the it. My 557 is very similar but with 13:1 compression and Ron’s alcohol injection made 975 on dyno. We ve tuned it in the car and improved some I believe it may be closer to 1000 now.

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Post  ChrisH Fri 5 Aug 2022 - 0:40

thank you for posting. besides just being an interesting read, the thing i noticed was he stated he went with bushing lifters which is one probably the biggest question i had.

ive decided to go with e85 and give that a try. the dual benifit of cooling the intake charge and the compression help seem like a worthwhile trade for the downsides.

but it seems 8xx's are a reasonable goal, and 9xx's are debatable.

i can live with that.

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Post  Dave De Fri 5 Aug 2022 - 14:12

ChrisH wrote:thank you for posting. besides just being an interesting read, the thing i noticed was he stated he went with bushing lifters which is one probably the biggest question i had.

ive decided to go with e85 and give that a try. the dual benifit of cooling the intake charge and the compression help seem like a worthwhile trade for the downsides.

but it seems 8xx's are a reasonable goal, and 9xx's are debatable.

i can live with that.

I thought you were upset with solid roller reliability issues. So I'll put a plug in for BAM lifters. Also there are cam grinds out there where you can reduce the spring load up to 300 pounds. This should be good for a street package or a combination race and street purpose.
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Post  hbstang Fri 5 Aug 2022 - 14:14

your gaols can be met with the right heads,cam and compression,cubic inch.
a-460 block 4.600 bore
4.500 crank,better quality forging
13.5-14-1 comp for e85
cam 272 @.050, .750 lift
crower bush lifters,full oil flow
no reason to go smaller on stroke,the extra cubes will tame the cam some what.the comp makes it it very possible to get 950 hp with good A-460 heads.imho
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Post  dfree383 Fri 5 Aug 2022 - 14:40

I’d consider using some hydraulic rollers
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Post  ChrisH Sun 7 Aug 2022 - 18:02

Dave De,
my concern is around the solid rollers and their longevity, with spring pressures required to run a cam that can make higher number HP.
i have been testing a package in my car currently, but i know they will not be up to the task.

however, except for the cost of busing lifters, my only question is what type of wear can they take. but i know this is the path i will likely have to take to approach my end result.


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Post  BBFTorino Sun 7 Aug 2022 - 19:37

Something of this caliber is inevitably going to be much higher maintainence than your stock 1974 LTD 460.
Lifters, pushrods and springs need to be checked / serviced / replaced periodically. It's just the nature of the beast.

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Post  738drvr Yesterday at 2:49

My 557 is a 900+hp engine on E85. About 12.5-13:1. Cam is 270's duration and 750ish lift on a 112 LSA. SR-71 heads unported. Built this engine to run Dragweek. It was a 552 with Edelbrock heads before. A 572-598 on E85 will hit 1000hp easy with a good head. I would probably go with the SR-71 on that build but a good set of newer A460s would work just as well if not better.
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Post  rmcomprandy Today at 0:05

A few years ago, I built a street 562, (except it had 13/1 compression and he used C12 gasoline), for a customer with ported TFS "A heads", TFS intake and 1,325 Holley carb, using a large flat tappet camshaft, which made 880 horsepower under 7,000 RPM.

So, yea, it can certainly be done

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