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High compression and dual batteries

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lance flake
QtrWarrior
supervel45
curiousgeorge
John Myrick
BBFTorino
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Post  BBFTorino April 25th 2023, 3:49 pm

Just looking for some tips about easier starting.
My combo--557 with 14:1 compression. Cam is solid roller 268@.050 int. / 276@.050 exh.
Timing is at 18* initial. It has an MSD 6 box, but the 20 degree start retard feature quit working.
This thing absolutely will not crank with one battery. I have two batteries, both are rated at 1000 CCA, and 750 at ambient temp. And even with that, it barely gets the job done. The starter is a Summit brand high torque gear reduction type and I have tested it numerous times and it passes the test every time. The cables are 00 welding cable.
Do I need to switch to two 16 volt batteries to get it to crank at a decent speed?

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Post  John Myrick April 25th 2023, 5:28 pm

Is the ignition turned on when you are trying to crank ? If it is try cranking the engine to speed , then hit the ignition ( 2 seperate buttons/ switches)
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Post  curiousgeorge April 25th 2023, 10:13 pm

I had a 485” 14:1 with timing locked at 36*. I ran one of the old starters from the 70’s for years without issue. 2 1000cca batteries. When the old starter finally quit I put a starter off a late 90’s 460. The gear reduction one and it worked fine also. But having the ignition on a separate switch where you can let the motor spin up to speed before turning it on made it a lot easier on the starter when everything was warmed up.

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Post  BBFTorino April 25th 2023, 11:17 pm

Yes, the ignition is on an On/Off switch, but when I get it cranking up to speed with the switch off, then flip it on, the starter just crashes the ring gear and it instantly stops turning.
I find it easier on the parts when I have the ign. switch on and crank it that way.
I have one of those MSD adjustable timing control knobs that allows you to turn the timing up or down. It's not installed yet. I was wondering if I could install that and take few degrees out of it for start up purpose, then restore it back to the normal setting once it's running.

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Post  supervel45 April 25th 2023, 11:30 pm

^Yes you can do that. I almost suggested it but, it seems like you may have something else going on. I have had starters that tested good and were still flakey though.

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Post  QtrWarrior April 26th 2023, 8:21 am

If it stalls the starter when you flip the ignition on,...you might want to check the rotor phasing..
I had 36* locked out on my 14.5 555" with no start retard..
Never had an issue rolling it over and flipping the switch on 1 Redtop Optima Battery
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Post  lance flake April 26th 2023, 9:17 am

1 good 16v battery should fix your issue. We have had a couple BBF's with starting issues and 12v batteries. The 16v solved all of those.

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Post  curiousgeorge April 26th 2023, 10:49 am

I’d try a different starter. A good starter with 2 batteries shouldn’t even flinch when you flip the ignition on.

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Post  curiousgeorge April 26th 2023, 10:50 am

Double post

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Post  Curt April 26th 2023, 10:04 pm

BBFTorino wrote:Just looking for some tips about easier starting.
My combo--557 with 14:1 compression. Cam is solid roller 268@.050 int. / 276@.050 exh.
Timing is at 18* initial. It has an MSD 6 box, but the 20 degree start retard feature quit working.
This thing absolutely will not crank with one battery. I have two batteries, both are rated at 1000 CCA, and 750 at ambient temp. And even with that, it barely gets the job done. The starter is a Summit brand high torque gear reduction type and I have tested it numerous times and it passes the test every time. The cables are 00 welding cable.
Do I need to switch to two 16 volt batteries to get it to crank at a decent speed?

Your starter is no good. Sorry.
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Post  stanger68 April 26th 2023, 11:54 pm

From my experience summit/jegs branded products in general are junk. Get a new starter.

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Post  lance flake April 27th 2023, 9:16 am

I have had pretty good luck with a quality parts store starter that fits a 1994 ish 460 in a pick up truck. Power master starters on the 460 did not fair to well.

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Post  BBFTorino April 27th 2023, 3:41 pm

Unfortunately, I cannot use an OEM full size type of starter, as it will not fit with the headers. The good mini starters are between $400-500 Shocked LOL
But I am thinking of trying the MSD unit.

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Post  John Myrick April 27th 2023, 3:45 pm

BBFTorino wrote:Unfortunately, I cannot use an OEM full size type of starter, as it will not fit with the headers. The good mini starters are between $400-500 Shocked  LOL
But I am thinking of trying the MSD unit.

What about a ford mini-starter ?
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Post  supervel45 April 27th 2023, 4:37 pm

BBFTorino wrote:Unfortunately, I cannot use an OEM full size type of starter, as it will not fit with the headers. The good mini starters are between $400-500 Shocked  LOL
But I am thinking of trying the MSD unit.

Just turn down the timing at the distributor to 8 or 10 degrees. I  don't think it will help.

If the headers are up against the starter you might be having the Chevy heat soak starter problem, or it cooked it already.

Solenoid Contacts pitted out/burnt?


Last edited by supervel45 on April 27th 2023, 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  lance flake April 27th 2023, 4:50 pm

The one I’m talking about is a small starter. Solenoid mounted on it.

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Post  curiousgeorge April 27th 2023, 6:01 pm

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/RAY2446674?impressionRank=1

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Post  QtrWarrior April 28th 2023, 9:57 am

I use a mini starter from a mid 90's truck on my 1200hp,15 to 1 ,618''
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Post  BBFTorino April 28th 2023, 3:14 pm

QtrWarrior wrote:I use a mini starter from a mid 90's truck on my 1200hp,15 to 1 ,618''
Do you know what the specs are? How many amps it draws? Is it "clockable"?

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Post  Dave De April 28th 2023, 4:10 pm

Right now I'm running the Jegs mini but also have a DB Electric mini for a backup. You shouldnt need to have the clocked version for the factory starter.

My setup is 2- 800 cca Optimas, 14 to one, locked at 26 degrees, 6AL, and number 2 cable everywhere. I establish cranking before lighting. I had trouble with a few crimped ends and soldered all of them. Check your crimped ends after a crank test. If they are warm to touch then solder them.
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Post  BBFTorino April 28th 2023, 6:23 pm

Yeah, I have to have one that is able to be clocked because of the headers, it has to be flipped nearly upside down.

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Post  Warrensbbf April 30th 2023, 8:31 am

Get another msd box, you shouldnt hVe that much trouble starting it

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Post  QtrWarrior April 30th 2023, 9:27 am

BBFTorino wrote:
QtrWarrior wrote:I use a mini starter from a mid 90's truck on my 1200hp,15 to 1 ,618''
Do you know what the specs are? How many amps it draws? Is it "clockable"?

I do not know the specs and it is not clockable..
The solenoid is at the 12:00 o'clock position, and with as small as it is, is tuck up under head a good bit.

Do you have a good ground to the block ?? Have you tried running a ground to one of the starter bolts ??
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Post  Curt April 30th 2023, 11:31 am

Go here and be done.  https://www.meziere.com/Products/Starters/Completes-and-Kits/Ford.aspx
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Post  lance flake April 30th 2023, 9:36 pm

Curt wrote:Go here and be done.  https://www.meziere.com/Products/Starters/Completes-and-Kits/Ford.aspx

This will solve problems

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