higher speeding waterpump

Hello,
My engine runs a little hot, approx. 200 deg on highway.
I have a aluminum radiator (2-row), high volume waterpump, 170 deg. thermostat, on a Ford 400 engine fully MSD equipped.
Timming is a bit advanced; it starts a bit harder when hot.

now i wonder: when driving on the highway the engine makes 2000rpm, wich isn't that high.
The high volume pump may need to spin a little bit faster in order to have enough flow thru the radiator.
(when i pull the cap and rev it a little, i can see enough water squirt through the row's though...)

Is it possible to get me an overdrive pulley for the pump?
i have electric dual fan's, controlled by a Spal temp. controller, so the fan blades aren't affected by the eventually higher speed, so not that much more drag.


Any info?

thanks.

Does it overheat when idling? That'd be the only issue for me, cuz I think a 200 degree cruise temp is OK.

Speeding up the coolant flow may not be the answer. Generally speaking, coolant needs time within the engine block to absorb heat and then while in the radiator time to cool. If I may suggest, set the ignition timing at a more appropriate setting, not that it will assist with the coolant temperature as much as save your starter and the engine should be a bit happier!

With the items you have in place as part of your cooling system, you should be capable of cooling a bull dozer! Just check the items your cooling system contains for proper location and function.

One other item. Does the 351M/400 blocks use the same coolant restrictor as the 351C block? If so, is it in place?

Happy Motoring.
Dave.

dutchie wrote:Hello,
My engine runs a little hot, approx. 200 deg on highway.
I have a aluminum radiator (row), high volume waterpump, 170 deg. thermostat, on a Ford 400 engine fully MSD equipped.
Timming is a bit advanced; it starts a bit harder when hot.

now i wonder: when driving on the highway the engine makes 2000rpm, wich isn't that high.
The high volume pump may need to spin a little bit faster in order to have enough flow thru the radiator.
(when i pull the cap and rev it a little, i can see enough water squirt through the row's though...)

Is it possible to get me an overdrive pulley for the pump?
i have electric dual fan's, so the fan blades aren't affected by the eventually higher speed, so not that much more drag.


Any info?

thanks.

What manufacturer makes a "high volume" water pump...? There are lots of anti cavitation, high RPM water pumps but, I don't know about any being HIGHER VOLUME than a stock Ford water pump.

Randy, Summit lists a Milodon one as high volume: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-16235/

I used the 460 version on my build, is it really HV or just marketing??

Bill

Well, i have to admit that i don't exactly know wich one it was, but installed it 2 years ago.
it was the same as the Edelbrock HV of $170, but then another brand. It also had extra blades installed on it. (twice as much as stock)

i installed another thermostat indeed, and i ordered a correct one, but didn't check the differences. It is special indeed, and not excangable with other types of thermostats.

I'll order a new one, just to be sure.

Last year's trip to Italy (approx. 800 miles) i noticed indeed that when i set timing later (i have a MSD timing controller), it gets a few degrees colder in a little while. (say 5-10 degrees). The engine makes a more destict exhaust sound, which tells me that the timing is just too late then. (correct?) it gets a tad louder.

Thanks for the help guys

billandlori wrote:Randy, Summit lists a Milodon one as high volume: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-16235/

I used the 460 version on my build, is it really HV or just marketing??

Bill

Higher volume at higher RPM due to less cavitation is a marketing ploy; it is true but, low RPM running is a completely different story.

dutchie wrote:Well, i have to admit that i don't exactly know wich one it was, but installed it 2 years ago.
it was the same as the Edelbrock HV of $170, but then another brand. It also had extra blades installed on it. (twice as much as stock)

i installed another thermostat indeed, and i ordered a correct one, but didn't check the differences. It is special indeed, and not excangable with other types of thermostats.

I'll order a new one, just to be sure.

Last year's trip to Italy (approx. 800 miles) i noticed indeed that when i set timing later (i have a MSD timing controller), it gets a few degrees colder in a little while. (say 5-10 degrees). The engine makes a more destict exhaust sound, which tells me that the timing is just too late then. (correct?) it gets a tad louder.

Thanks for the help guys

IF it is the SAME as Edelbrock or FRPP it certainly DOESN'T have twice as many blades as stock. As a matter of fact the impeller inside is a full inch smaller in diameter than a stock 385 Ford pump and centrifigul pump volume is mostly controlled by impeller TIP speed and the vector angle of discharge.

In the end ... spin it faster and you'll be OK.

okay, then it's advertised as being the same, as i never had a edel. in my hand to compare with.
i Do know that it has twice as much impellers..
As far as i remember, th diameter is the same as stock. ( althoug it's been a while..)

rmcomprandy wrote:

billandlori wrote:Randy, Summit lists a Milodon one as high volume: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-16235/

I used the 460 version on my build, is it really HV or just marketing??

Bill

Higher volume at higher RPM due to less cavitation is a marketing ploy; it is true but, low RPM running is a completely different story.

10-4, thanks Randy. It's interesting that the stock Ford stuff is as good or better than the aftermarket.....

Bill

10-4, thanks Randy. It's interesting that the stock Ford stuff is as good or better than the aftermarket.....

Marketing is a wonderful thing Bill!

It's human nature to think if it's bigger, faster or has more volume, then it must be better...........

dutchie wrote:Well, i have to admit that i don't exactly know wich one it was, but installed it 2 years ago.
it was the same as the Edelbrock HV of $170, but then another brand. It also had extra blades installed on it. (twice as much as stock)

Do you mean the cooling fan has more blades or the water pump impeller has extra blades?

I used the Milodon water pump with a seven blade mechanical cooling fan and an aluminum radiator.

Bill

PS: my father just got back from Holland a couple of weeks ago. He was over for the Liberation celebrations. He enjoyed himself a lot.

I have tried cooler thermostats when i ran a 351c in my 69 and it would run hotter I tried all the way down to a 165* but it would still run 200* to 210* turning it 2500 rpms .I had a old high preformance ford man tell me to go with a 180* thermostat that with the cooler thermostat it was staying open to long because trying to get cooler water in and not closing like it should because my engine made to much heat for a cooler thermostat.Not sure if that was what was causing it or not buty after I changed it,it never got over 190* and my engine liked the 190* I could tell it by the preformance of it.I run a 180* in the 351w that is in it now and it never gets over 190*.He also told me to expect the engine to run about 10* hotter than what the thermostat say it is when you have the correct one in and everything work together right. I know it worked for me don't know if it is causing your problem or not.

Jim

Nevs wrote:

10-4, thanks Randy. It's interesting that the stock Ford stuff is as good or better than the aftermarket.....

Marketing is a wonderful thing Bill!

It's human nature to think if it's bigger, faster or has more volume, then it must be better...........

Hmmmm, bigger isn't better??? LOL

That's the beauty of this forum, so many have "been there and done that!!"

Bill

billandlori wrote:

dutchie wrote:Well, i have to admit that i don't exactly know wich one it was, but installed it 2 years ago.
it was the same as the Edelbrock HV of $170, but then another brand. It also had extra blades installed on it. (twice as much as stock)

Do you mean the cooling fan has more blades or the water pump impeller has extra blades?

I used the Milodon water pump with a seven blade mechanical cooling fan and an aluminum radiator.

Bill

PS: my father just got back from Holland a couple of weeks ago. He was over for the Liberation celebrations. He enjoyed himself a lot.

I meant the waterpump, it had more blades / impellers.

5th of may
Where has he been?

last year there was an idiot that was able to get past the security with his car, ran over some cops, fences, and a person or 10, he tried to run into the truck where the queen and her family was in.
Fortunately it didn't work out, and he ran himself agains the statue "De pijl", and he died in the hospital.
This year there was a lot of tension, due to the fact last year. All worked out great though.

400's ran hot because the large combustion chambers are bad and the pistons are in the hole a good bit. we used to have a farm truck with one and we put a cheap moroso type add on electric motor and pulled the thermostat altogether. that lowered it to the 175-180 range. we wired it to a window switch similar to what is on your fan.

true, aussie heads are the solution to this, but just try to find ém for a reasonable price..
Some ask as much as brandnew assembled procomp's, which are a better choice i guess, despite the procomp reputation...

billandlori wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:

billandlori wrote:Randy, Summit lists a Milodon one as high volume: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-16235/

I used the 460 version on my build, is it really HV or just marketing??

Bill

Higher volume at higher RPM due to less cavitation is a marketing ploy; it is true but, low RPM running is a completely different story.

10-4, thanks Randy. It's interesting that the stock Ford stuff is as good or better than the aftermarket.....

Bill

The stock Ford water pump is NOT better at higher RPM, only at lower impeller speeds.
It is all in the design of the pumping unit as to what speed is most efficient..

If any one needs some aussie cleveland heads i can help out i have quite a few sets in 2v or 4v (2 barrel or 4 barrel in the states i think) If any one wants them if you pay shipping you can have them! I run a 351c with our 2v heads it makes 560hp and 455 foot pounds i had similar probs as this and in the end it was the csr water pump i swappedit and no more drama's run's 160 all day long!

boss56 wrote:If any one needs some aussie cleveland heads i can help out i have quite a few sets in 2v or 4v (2 barrel or 4 barrel in the states i think) If any one wants them if you pay shipping you can have them! I run a 351c with our 2v heads it makes 560hp and 455 foot pounds i had similar probs as this and in the end it was the csr water pump i swappedit and no more drama's run's 160 all day long!

Well, i might be interested.
Can you PM me some details? price, your location, etcetera.
Thanks.