the big bad rod debate

most of us are or have debated on rod choice
steel or alum
hbeam or i beam
billit or forged
scat or egaels
oliver or crower
how many rpm's
how much horse power
and so on
i honestly have asked the question a few times my self and honestly havent learned much
it seem's like everyone has there own personal choice and theroies
i am in the moddle of trying to chose a rod for my combo
and have been reserching like a mad man and getting nowere
so maybe we can help myself and a few others and try to figure out
rod choices
ok i know money plays a big role in this
is that why hbeams are so common
can they rilly handle 1500 hp
or is 800 the cut off point
rpm's?
has anyone broken a rod due to the rod or was it a something else that lead to it
can a set of olivers last a life time
so 1,300+ for a set dosent sound like a bad deal
are other names like howards billit rods not as good cause they are only 900$
maybe if they sold for 1,500$ they would be more popular do we sometimes pay more cause we think it is better
most of us say us forgings are better
well howards has it own place and makes all the stuff
why dont we see more guy's running them
i have also noticed some guy's have never had a hbeam fail but went to a billit rod
just to sleep better at night
would that motor still be just fine with the 500.00$ set of scat rods
there is alot of questions on this topic
and i am shure there are alot of great rods out there
and yes tune up plays a big role
and am i willing to spend 1,300$ on a set of rods
well if they will work yes i will
will they last many yrs yes i will buy them
but would a cheaper set of hbeams do the trick?
i have a 530 Ahead motor 15-1 comp
runs 7500-8500
i have had a set of howards in it till a oil issue wrecked the crank
so i am now rebuilding my lower end
and i can eather save a buch of cash and go with h-beam
or spend 900.00$ and go with another set of howards
or spend 1,300$ and go with olivers
or crowers or carillos ya know what i mean
i am kinda stuck between olivers and h-beams
btu what is the better odd's
h-beam bracking or oliver?
i have heard of a few oliver rods breaking
but is that due to more ppl running tham and do they think just cause they have olivers they can beat the crape out of it
i have also seem compstar has cheap rods out now
with all the options were does a guy start


jesse
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Where I'm at as far as power, the Eagle H-Beams will do just fine, and for quite some time into the future. I don't think that you will outdo the potential of the H's up to 1000hp with good tune and no power adders.

jesse go buy you a set of Titanium rods that should hold you till something breaks....it is your choice to use what makes you all warm and fuzzy.... Hell go get you a set of what ever...

No matter what you get it will eventually give up, it can not last forever...if you are worried about your budget then you are more than likely out of your budget range anyways.. so I suggest buy what you want...


Randy

the first thing you need to do Jesse is step back and take a deep breath ............ now once that is done i would right your total engine budget on a piece of paper and beside it list your goals of what you want from your vehicle (car/truck) then i would pick up the phone and give Mr. Lem a call and discuss those goals/budgets with him ........ he will put you in the right direction ...no doubt about it


but x2 on what Randy said anything can break and anything will break there are so many variables in this world of high performance

good luck
nick bruno

i relize any rod can break at any time
i have talked to lem about this a few times
and i respect his opion
that is why i have bought alot of parts from him
and will continue to do so
but i am gonna keep on asking the age old question
why? well i want to build a motor that will last a long
this last times i wanted to build a long lasting motor
i can afford a set of olivers
but i have hear from a few guy's
and thease are guy's we all respect and know
say they have heard of olivers breaking more than olivers
so that has got me thinking
no matter what rod i run i dont plan on running the motor to the ground
but want room to grow
lest say i update the heads and get a lil more out of it
i would like to be overkill than rideing the limit

jesse wrote:
they have heard of olivers breaking more than olivers

I think you mean they heard the Olivers break more than the Howards??

Anyway maybe someone could list them in a "Pecking Order" like the cylinder heads?? Personally I am a long way off of needing big $$ rods, but it would be a nice reference in the future!!

If it started at the top with the best "$$ no object" down to the stockers that would help many of us out.

Bill

I'm just gonna continute to use my 400 dollar h beams in my next build this winter, not 1500hp, but it aint no high school motor either.................

sorry i mean to say is
a few told me that they have heard of olivers breaking more than hbeams
but a pecking order would be a great idea
i relize some can get away with a set of stock rods flying 8000rpm's
but i dont have that kinda luck
so i will need the best that my buget will allow
lets say mu buget is 1,500 what would be the best
or spend 500.00 on a set of hbeams and stick the extra 1,000 in other parts
but i want inshurance

The only thing i dont care for with the h beams is the chevy borespacing, its puts an offset to the piston in the BB ford. I rekon its not at the top of the list for stuff to worry about though lol.

maybe not a big deal but it is all the lil stuff that adds up

One thing about fatigue, crack propagation, and other failure modes is that there is a very large variance from one specimen to another. In other words, one 'rod' may last 1,000,000 cycles while another may last 25,000,000 cycles. This even occurs under laboratory conditions. Therefore, the variance is even larger in the real world.

Have a good day!
Michael

This is an opinion poll...no answer really . Some think Chinese $400 forgings are better than the USA billets and others do not .

ok i have done alot of thinking and reserch
i will be going with olivers
why?
well yes they are spendy but i feel i might be able to get many yrs from thease rods
will h-beams work
well i am shure they would as i am shure my old howards would
but i want a rod that is gonna last me a long time
and i have spoken to alot of ppl on this
i like many other want to save money
but rods and cranks are not a plce were i want to be cheap on
if i were running a 6-700 hp and keeping the rpm's down under 7000
i would no doubt be running h-beams
but i cant honestly say i am only gonna run 7500-8000
and as far hp well i am shooting for 900
and i am ther kinda guy that will run my motor as far as it will go
if the track is just right and the truck wants to go i will push it as far as it will go
so in my case i better have som ins and fork over some cash

thanxs guys for the advice
jesse

Ok here goes. Anybody who says a rod can handle x amount of power at x rpm without knowing the particulars of the engine either has esp or is plain full of s*it. I would recommend calling Oliver and asking them what rod they would recommend for your application. Stroke, piston weight and rod angularity are all contributing factors as to how much power and rpm a connecting rod can handle. So a 3" stroke motor can handle a lot more rpm and power with the same weight piston than a 5" stroke motor.
And for the record, I never take second hand knowledge as gospel. I heard of olivers breaking.... as opposed to, I have held, in my very own two hands, a broken oliver connecting rod that was obviously at fault and had no other contributing factors...
For the record, I hate Eagle products. But an eagle H-beam with upgraded bolts would probably suffice for your project. Have the pin bushing honed for .001-.0012" clearance and go...