MSD PROBLEMS?

guy's trying to find a solution to a hard start or kick back when starting the car. So I have a MSD dist 8580 and I removed the springs and spacer and removed the roll pin and swaped the shaft 180 degrees and reinstalled the nut and put it all back together. Started up the car and for the first time the timing was not jumping all over the place. Set it at 36 degrees and seemed pretty steady. Now I was watching it as I rasied the RPM's and it RETARDED 2-3 degrees? I just ran the car for less thatn 3-4 minutes(pretty late here 8:45PM). I will recheck it in the morrning just to reasure I not loosing my marbles. Anybody see this? I also have the MSD 7AL -3 box but there's no chips in it to retard anything.

Ace

Ace,

I think you need to have a chip in the 7 AL-3 box, even if it is a zero chip. Something about a default signal.

Charlie

c.evans wrote:Ace,

I think you need to have a chip in the 7 AL-3 box, even if it is a zero chip. Something about a default signal.

Charlie

and I think that it should be installed on all the retards (4)

ace

Right off there web sitr

MULTI-STEP RETARD
There are four retard modules available with the 7AL-3. Each module is activated independently
by removing ground from the corresponding module. The controlling terminals are listed as RET-1
through RET-4 and are located on the third terminal strip. The modules can be activated in any order
and are cumulative unless deactivated. The maximum amount of retard allowed is a total of 20° even
if the modules add up to more than 20°.
Note: If a Retard function is not going to be used the corresponding terminals must be grounded,
or a "zero" degree module must be installed.


Ace

I do both on my 7AL-3. I have the zero chips in 3 spots and I have a ground wire looped to the terminals, just for good measure. I have my crank trigger set up at 40* and I use a retard chip in the first spot to set my timing where I want it. That way I never have to adjust the trigger pickup to change timing. Just change the retard chip.

On your kicking back problem, if you have a crank trigger make sure the wheel is mounted in the right direction. If it's not it will retard your timing a few degrees as you start gaining rpm's. Been there, done that. Even argued with the MSD tech, guess who was right

I've blamed my 7AL-3 on many problems but have never had an issue with it in 12 years.

seems back in the day the 7AL3 boxes had issues. We had similar probles on the smallblock car with a 6al and a sep multistep retard........except it was retarding like 15*, turns out the multistep was at fault.

OK this is what I did. Last night I set the timing @ 36 degrees, Then it would retard 3 degrees when the rpm's got up over 2000. So today I Installed zero chips in all the retarded postions in the 7al3 box. OK this car has nothing else. Went to start the car and started real hard. Once it was started I checked the timing and it was at 55 degrees
OK? don't know where that came from. So I reset the timing to 36 degrees and it still reteards 3 degrees once its over 2000 rpm's But its steady as a rock so I'm going with this for the time being. I'll also give MSD a friendly call tomorrow and we what kind of BULLSH*T answer I'll get from them.

Ace

Thats why we shitcaned or I mean sold the one we had..............7al2 for us.

powerstrokeace wrote:OK this is what I did. Last night I set the timing @ 36 degrees, Then it would retard 3 degrees when the rpm's got up over 2000. So today I Installed zero chips in all the retarded postions in the 7al3 box. OK this car has nothing else. Went to start the car and started real hard. Once it was started I checked the timing and it was at 55 degrees
OK? don't know where that came from. So I reset the timing to 36 degrees and it still reteards 3 degrees once its over 2000 rpm's But its steady as a rock so I'm going with this for the time being. I'll also give MSD a friendly call tomorrow and we what kind of BULLSH*T answer I'll get from them.

Ace

That's what I was trying to say,,,,if you set your timing without a chip in the retards, then you set it wrong for when you do have a chip in the retards. Likewise, if you set the timing with a chip (module) in, then remove the chip the timing will change. Trust me, there's an engine that I'm connected with, that came off the dyno absolutely perfect after a few dozen dyno pulls, and then went in a dragster and first time out the engine suffered a blown head gasket and a split cylinder wall because of the 55 degrees of timing you mentioned above,,,,but come to find out, the driver removed the 0* retard chip that was in the box, because he didn't think it was doing anything.

Charlie

charlie
Thanks so much for bring this to my attenion. I've been running this like this for 11 years. I'll se what MSD say's then try it out in April when the track opens up. Sure aint my Cam problem I've been chasin since July 09

Ace

Ace,
What type of a timing light are u using also? The MSD components don't like the dial back timing lights. Use your normal ole standard light.

I've been using a MAC timing light with the advance feature. BUT i never us it. I just leave it a Zero. I went through this same thing ( me and a few buddy compare timing light using MSD systems) about 20 years ago and learned that lesson.

Ace

Ok so I called MSD today and got some A hole with and "accent". So I explain to him what I'd done and that with out the chips in the retard its really 20 degrees more advance. He started to ague with me saying chip or no chips the MSD does not control timing! (????) Ok Mr MSD so whats the problem. He said its my timing light and I need to make sure the timing light has its own power source and not from the car thats we are testing. WHAT AN A** HOLE this guy was. So this weekend I'm going to test it out on both cars( they both have the same systems and see whats up from there.

Ace