Max effort BBF build wish list

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Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  whatbumper on May 23rd 2011, 12:52 pm

If you were building a max effort nitrous assisted (one kit) motor say in the 598ci range with any "A" heads what would it look like and how much power could it make. Let's just say for arguement that it is on race gas and has to run a cast single carb manifold. and let's also say that it is efi so fuel would be introduced late in the runner.
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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  cool40 on May 23rd 2011, 1:53 pm

eliminator block and 903A+ heads.efi would be a + on the cast intake too.i have a set of the heads with 2.5 intake valve and they flow very good as far as "A"heads go.
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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  whatbumper on May 23rd 2011, 2:22 pm

cool40 wrote:eliminator block and 903A+ heads.efi would be a + on the cast intake too.i have a set of the heads with 2.5 intake valve and they flow very good as far as "A"heads go.

that's actually what has been looked at. along with a very good TFS intake. I know this sounds funny to some but I don't care about flow, I want POWER. The 4.80 range at 3250lbs on 10.5's.

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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  Lem Evans on May 23rd 2011, 4:15 pm

How much tq/hp does it take to run 4.80s @ 3,250# ?

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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  whatbumper on May 23rd 2011, 4:28 pm

I'm not sure. I've been in the small block turbo world for so long and we've never has ours on the dyno. We've been 149 in the eighth at 3320 lbs. What kind of power is that?

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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  bruno on May 23rd 2011, 4:30 pm

Lem Evans wrote:How much tq/hp does it take to run 4.80s @ 3,250# ?


1600 - 1800 depends on 60' management 1100 -1200 n/a plus 600-800 on the hose , which should net you some 15x's in the 1/8
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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  Lem Evans on May 23rd 2011, 4:46 pm

whatbumper wrote:I'm not sure. I've been in the small block turbo world for so long and we've never has ours on the dyno. We've been 149 in the eighth at 3320 lbs. What kind of power is that?
Damned if I know......I was hoping you car guys knew Smile

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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  Lem Evans on May 23rd 2011, 4:48 pm

bruno wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:How much tq/hp does it take to run 4.80s @ 3,250# ?


1600 - 1800 depends on 60' management 1100 -1200 n/a plus 600-800 on the hose , which should net you some 15x's in the 1/8
that being the case it'd think a 632" rather than a 598"

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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  whatbumper on May 23rd 2011, 7:12 pm

Anything over 604 adds 150lbs here.

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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  DILLIGASDAVE on May 23rd 2011, 8:26 pm

Can you use as many stages as you want, but you have decided to use just one? Or is one stage the rules imposed limit?

Is a turbo BBF combo allowed? Or are you going nitrous with the BBF because the rules stack more weight on if it's a turbo combo?
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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  138 on May 23rd 2011, 8:30 pm

just post the rules...and didn't they just yank the turbo cars out of your organization?

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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  c.evans on May 23rd 2011, 8:37 pm

Are alum. blocks part of the equation? In other words are they allowed without a weight penality? If so, I'd suggest you use one. If not, then use a FRPP A-460 block and go on and build a 598 CID engine. As for heads, I'd use the TFS A-460 -18 bolt heads and titanium valves. Also the new TFS single plane intake manifold. Phillip Oakley made around 1080 or so REAL horspower with a similiar combination back last Dec/Jan., if memory serves me. Check with him.

Charlie

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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  cool40 on May 23rd 2011, 9:14 pm

c.evans wrote:Are alum. blocks part of the equation? In other words are they allowed without a weight penality? If so, I'd suggest you use one. If not, then use a FRPP A-460 block and go on and build a 598 CID engine. As for heads, I'd use the TFS A-460 -18 bolt heads and titanium valves. Also the new TFS single plane intake manifold. Phillip Oakley made around 1080 or so REAL horspower with a similiar combination back last Dec/Jan., if memory serves me. Check with him.

Charlie
the 18 bolt deal is a good point Charlie.big dose of "hose"would be realy good to have the extra bolts.
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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  bruno on May 23rd 2011, 9:16 pm

c.evans wrote:Are alum. blocks part of the equation? In other words are they allowed without a weight penality? If so, I'd suggest you use one. If not, then use a FRPP A-460 block and go on and build a 598 CID engine. As for heads, I'd use the TFS A-460 -18 bolt heads and titanium valves. Also the new TFS single plane intake manifold. Phillip Oakley made around 1080 or so REAL horspower with a similiar combination back last Dec/Jan., if memory serves me. Check with him.

Charlie

is that a max build or just a low maintence bracket deal ?
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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  Lem Evans on May 23rd 2011, 9:20 pm

Some of both.........has already won a Jeg's quick show this year.

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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  whatbumper on May 23rd 2011, 10:03 pm

RULES:

Chassis:
Stock Front frame rails and Smith Race Craft bolt on Front Ends only. Must be in stock location. Aftermarket control arms and bushings allowed, bolted in stock locations.
Rack and Pinion steering allowed.
Aftermarket strut is allowed
Aftermarket Coil over shocks allowed
ALL replacement parts must be in stock location
K-Members allowed (late model Mustangs, Camaro and Firebirds)
Mini Tubs allowed.
Back half allowed with stipulations (See Odie)
Stock suspension or ladder bar only
Motor Plate and Mid Plate allowed
relocated rear coil over shocks allowed
No wheelie bars

Body:
Firewall must be in stock location, minor modifications for trans, etc, is OK.
Unaltered floor pan. Floor may be altered for thru the floor sub-frame connectors, etc. Floor
pans must be from back of front seat to firewall.

Tires:
12” wheel max
28x10.5w
29.5 10.5 Tread width only, No Hoosier part # 18192D05 allowed.
12.5 sidewall designation DOT Tires max not to exceed 10.5 inches of tread
315/60R/15 or smaller drag radial allowed.
325/50R/15 allowed.

Power Adders:
NITROUS; Two bottles are allowed when being y'd together into one #6 line. if bottles are in the trunk there must be only one # 6 line leaving the trunk, If inside the car only one #6 line coming from a Y, no more than 12" from the bottles and before reaching firewall, Y must be visable for teching.

BLOWER; F1R only.

NO TURBO

Air to Liguid Intercooler.
E85 is allowed
No Alcohol

Transmission:
Automatic or factory equipped manual, no Bruno or Linco etc.

Engines:
Mass produced cast aluminum intakes only. Single Carb.

Heads:
Billet or custom fabricated heads prohibited.
Big Block cylinder heads must retain 24 deg. style port/valve configurations. N0 18* heads
allowed. Small block ci no max limit

Exhaust:
Mufflers Required.
No Insert or Collector mufflers.

Small block Weight
23* SBC head, (nitrous)2 Kits....... ..2800 lb
20* SBF head (nitrous) 2 Kits..........2800 lb
All Other heads (nitrous)1 kit..... 2900 lb
other kits must be capped at solenoids.


Blower Small block.....................3250 lb
Blower Small block Neal Yates SB2......3325 lb
No Nitrous and Induction combo allowed.

Big Block Weight
Big block Big Chief style heads
naturally aspirated only..................... 3250lb
605 CI or smaller (Nitrous) 1 kit..............3250 lb
606-638 CI, 10.2 deck heights (Nitrous) 1 kit..3400 lb
other kits must be capped at solenoids.
Forced induction...............................3450 lb

We will keep a close eye on all combos and will adjust weight
when necessary to keep the class close and competitive

General
Cars must cross scales after every qualifying and elimination round. If Fail to do so, car will
be disqualified.
Towing to the Staging lanes is allowed. Car must be driven to the scales. Towing from the scales will be allowed.
No towing vehicles, golf carts etc, will be allowed past the scales. This could result in
disqualification. Any Towing vehicle etc, needing to pass scales for a broken car, must be
cleared at scales first. Except for an emergency.
The win will be awarded to any car legally crossing the finish line first. Regardless of what
happens to it after the win, wreck, break, etc.

OTT5 reserves the right to change the rules at anytime., to keep the class competitive.

AND

This is a heads up 1/8th mile race intended for production cars of all makes and models.

Cubic inch will be checked randomly at all races, there are no max limits small block, big blocks maximum 638ci

Cars will qualify and race on a pro ladder. ALL RUN FIELD.
Aftermarket blocks and cylinder heads allowed.
Intakes must be cast no welding No sheet metal intakes allowed.
Single carburetor only. Motor plates and solid mounts allowed.
Engine in stock location and must not touch firewall.

Class will run 4 tenths Pro Tree, 1/8th Mile
All cars must be driven to the staging lanes AND DRIVEN TO THE SCALES
No Traction control boxes allowed (IE external davis or similar type units). msd 7531/7530/7530t is allowed
Stock front frame rails required
Any bolt on K-Member or subframe allowed with original suspension mounting points.
After market bolt on front suspension allowed
Front coilovers allowed upper shock or strut must mount in original fashion
Floor Pan must be original or factory type replacement to the back of front seat
Trunk floor can be modified for fuel cell and pumps.
Transmission may have a removable tunnel
No aftermaket 4 links allowed.
All smith racecraft front ends allowed

Floor pan may be notched for Ladder Bar or subframe connector clearance or cage attachment.
Lexan allowed
Standard bore space blocks only.
No wheelie bars *

Roots Blower 8.71 max allowed.
Turbo single 88 mm inlet, reducers allowed, reducers will be measured to 1/16 of an inch from the wheel.
67mm twin turbos allowed, reducers allowed.
F1R Procharger max on all combos
Any Single stage nitrous kit on big blocks, max 2 nos solenoids.
Small block allowed any 2 kit, max 4 nitrous solenoids with fogger, 2 nitrous solenoids with plate

Power Adders
Big Block Conventional heads...single fogger .. 3250
Big block with big chief or pro stock heads naturally aspirated only, sheetmetal intake allowed.. 3000 lbs
Blower or turbo big block 3400 lbs

Blower or turbo Small block inline heads ..3250 lbs
Blower or turbo Small block canted valve or neal (sb2, yates, etc) 3350

Nitrous Small block with inline heads 2800 lbs
Nitrous small block with neal or canted head 3000 lbs

Front wheel drive import turbo/blown/nos/all motor ..... 2000 lbs ***** wheelie bars allowed on all front drive combos.

Pontiac, Olds, Buick, Caddy over 500 inches runs at catch weight between big and small block with their respective combos

Add 100 pounds to 606-638 cubic inch combos

29.5 10.5 non W and smaller sidewall designation only
28 10.5 W allowed
315 and 325 drag radial and smaller allowed

Feel free to call me with any questions or concerns. 405-401-7409

I retain the right to keep this class competitive and will make adjustments to the rules as i need to do so.

If anyone wins 2 in a row or 3 in a single season, 100 pounds will be added to the competitor


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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  schmitty on May 23rd 2011, 10:19 pm

Wow sounds like they don't want anyone to win too much. Suspect I can understand wanting a competitve field, but handicapping a good racer by adding weight if they win too much isn't going to help this out too much IMO. What happens when you all are weighing like 5000# because everyone takes their turn at winning too much.
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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  c.evans on May 23rd 2011, 10:29 pm

Well,

The rules appear to be written by someone who knows about Chevies and not about Fords. however, within this framework it seems to me that the BB Ford combo to run, would be like what you're already thinking.

1. BB Ford, 598 CID, TFS A-460-18 bolt heads, stock 10.320" deck height (sorry about that Chevy guys), TFS A-460 "single" intake manifold, a single stage of nitrous and weigh 3250 lbs. I don't see any penality for alum. blocks, so I'd run one. It's less weight on the front end, and it gives you the flexibility of moving more weight around. The R D (Roberts Design) alum. block is the 18 bolt version. If your budget allows, then run a dry sump, Star vacuum pump, Danny Bee belt drive, titanium valves and shaft mounted rockers. You said max effort.

Charlie

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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  138 on May 23rd 2011, 10:34 pm

c.evans wrote: titanium valves and shaft mounted rockers. You said max effort.

Charlie


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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  whatbumper on May 23rd 2011, 11:12 pm

We do have titanium valves and shaft rockers on all the small motors we've had. i was thinking that the ford could run some numbers. I just got verification that the A head is legal.

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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  BigDave65 on May 23rd 2011, 11:15 pm

Towing to the Staging lanes is allowed. Car must be driven to the scales. Towing from the scales will be allowed.
No towing vehicles, golf carts etc, will be allowed past the scales. This could result in
disqualification.

I'm confused! You can tow from the scales to the lanes but no towing vehicles allowed past the scales. I guess you better have some buddies and a long rope if you want to tow to the lanes.
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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  whatbumper on May 24th 2011, 12:11 am

We weigh after the pass. Scales are at the return road

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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  c.evans on May 24th 2011, 1:54 am

Guys the amount of run time on the return road, stopping at the e.t. slip booth, returning to the pits and etc. shouldn't be any problem. Watch this; 4 minutes and 47 seconds of continous run time with a 1100 hp, 598 CID BB Ford engine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY3lSlerE-0&NR=1

Krisse was at Indy and those return roads to the pits are really long.

Charlie

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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  whatbumper on May 24th 2011, 8:28 am

we drove our 800hp small block everywhere so I would think that it would be okay with a big motor.

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Re: Max effort BBF build wish list

Post  D. Sea on May 24th 2011, 12:19 pm

I was gonna suggest Thor heads however you really need a larger engine. Kevin and Leon have been kicking mucho butt in the OVOS True Street class with a BBF Nitrous application utilizing Thor heads however he's around 632ci IIRC.

It doesn't say anything about Hemi Heads... What if we utilized A441 Heads? Then add some spray?

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