cubic inch vs. "the budget"

so im starting to gather my parts for the next build , and as you guys know im more of a bling kinda of guy , i mean who else buys a danny bee to go along with his edelbrock heads

but i would really like to do a 4.60 bore and a 4.60 stroke ( 612 ), why because it sounds cool , but when does it get more expensive to do a larger bore/stroke in an a460 block ? is there any additional machine work on the block with the larger stroke ? would there be any added price for a 4.75 stroke for 632 cubes ? is that even feasable on an a460 block ?

thxs for the input guys

bruno wrote:... i would really like to do a 4.60 bore and a 4.60 stroke ( 612 )... is there any additional machine work on the block with the larger stroke ?

thxs for the input guys

With even a 4.600" stroke it wouldn't surprise me if the typical H-beam steel rods cleared since it's only a 0.050" reduction in clearance (rod to bottom of cylinder)...but we haven't tried that one yet. I'm collecting parts for a 4.600" shortblock myself that will use really lightweight aluminum rods in a passenger car block. I think even that might clear; if not then we'll machine.

Also, we just machined the bottom of the cylinders of an A460 block that had a 4.375" billet crank and the biggest Brooks Fuel rods you can by. These way overkill huge rods required clearancing at the cylinders, and still, more than enough material was safely removed (perhaps 0.100" clearance between rods and cylinders). So you ought not run into problems with steel rods and a 4.600" stroke.

Paul

I understand the question and being a novice builder , when I was thinking about going 600 + cubes I didnt even think about block mods however I know the the big cubes needs big heads for big flow. A460s atleast so there is some added cost plus new intake, more added cost, bigger carb, added cost. Not mention extra height on intake may effect weather you need more hood clearance or added hood scoop. Not to mention another set of headers. Im sure you thought of all that because I did. Wasnt in my budget.lol

Nick, when you go to the 4.75" stroke there are no forgings so it'll have to be a billet crank........$3,000+. The 4.750" stroke with steel rods will go in the A460 block with little, if any, additional work.

A 4.600 crank from Adney is pretty economical, But If your going with say a Bryant or Crower at 4.600 it will probably be a billet and might as well go 4.75 for the $$$ spent.

It it was me I'd just Freshen Your Block to the next Oversize, Get some Rods and Pistons and use your C460 heads. Everything will be OOOO-Tay..... and reasonably priced. Can probably finance a sizable portion of the short block by selling the Eddies and other stuff you are taking off, only real out lay will be the top end.

cobra501 wrote:I understand the question and being a novice builder , when I was thinking about going 600 + cubes I didnt even think about block mods however I know the the big cubes needs big heads for big flow. A460s atleast so there is some added cost plus new intake, more added cost, bigger carb, added cost. Not mention extra height on intake may effect weather you need more hood clearance or added hood scoop. Not to mention another set of headers. Im sure you thought of all that because I did. Wasnt in my budget.lol

thanks for the input , i have also figured in the budget all the additional stuff from headers to additional chassis work for the 7.50 cert. , im just trying to compare i guess the short block build part of it , also im wanting to have this block for one more freshen up ...if yall know what i mean

Paul Kane wrote:

bruno wrote:... i would really like to do a 4.60 bore and a 4.60 stroke ( 612 )... is there any additional machine work on the block with the larger stroke ?

thxs for the input guys

With even a 4.600" stroke it wouldn't surprise me if the typical H-beam steel rods cleared since it's only a 0.050" reduction in clearance (rod to bottom of cylinder)...but we haven't tried that one yet. I'm collecting parts for a 4.600" shortblock myself that will use really lightweight aluminum rods in a passenger car block. I think even that might clear; if not then we'll machine.

Also, we just machined the bottom of the cylinders of an A460 block that had a 4.375" billet crank and the biggest Brooks Fuel rods you can by. These way overkill huge rods required clearancing at the cylinders, and still, more than enough material was safely removed (perhaps 0.100" clearance between rods and cylinders). So you ought not run into problems with steel rods and a 4.600" stroke.

Paul

thxs for the info Paul

Lem Evans wrote:Nick, when you go to the 4.75" stroke there are no forgings so it'll have to be a billet crank........$3,000+. The 4.750" stroke with steel rods will go in the A460 block with little, if any, additional work.

that definetly answer the question of going to the 4.75" stroke , i will stick with the 4.60" deal , thxs Lem

dfree383 wrote:A 4.600 crank from Adney is pretty economical, But If your going with say a Bryant or Crower at 4.600 it will probably be a billet and might as well go 4.75 for the $$$ spent.

It it was me I'd just Freshen Your Block to the next Oversize, Get some Rods and Pistons and use your C460 heads. Everything will be OOOO-Tay..... and reasonably priced. Can probably finance a sizable portion of the short block by selling the Eddies and other stuff you are taking off, only real out lay will be the top end.

yes i talked with Adney the other day and i will be using his 4.600" deal , im usure of the top end , i will be talking to Jay from IDT and figure which direction im going

Something to think about. Besides the initial costs of parts, when you get past a certain point with cid and big ol' camshafts, your maintenance costs start increasing a bunch. Big motors with big cams beat up parts. They are rough on valvesprings and lifters.

BigDave65 wrote:Something to think about. Besides the initial costs of parts, when you get past a certain point with cid and big ol' camshafts, your maintenance costs start increasing a bunch. Big motors with big cams beat up parts. They are rough on valvesprings and lifters.

Dave,

my philosphy on the build would for your every weekend bracket racer , so build it with enough cubes and an induction package that would get me some great results but with the cam on the smaller side to make the whole package more reliable , and defiently design the cam profile to work well with the hose

I'd agree with Nick, Building a big inch motor doesn't have to mean "Max Effort".

Keep the cam specs sane, the compression and RPM Reasonable and you'll have something that will last a long time.

Hello guys, long time lurker here as well as 460Ford, first time poster. Like a lot of people, I'm versed in the SBF world thanks to the Fox body mustang but lately I have had a hankerin' to cast off the constraints of the small block and build something with some serious cubes.

Anyway, I'm curious about this topic of cubes versus budget as well. From reading the boards I know that going beyond the 4.5" stroke that the widely available forged cranks allow can get expensive but I also wonder about return on investment and how sensitive they are to cylinder head quality. I'm sure at some point feeding all the cubes is going to get expensive. I also wonder what it takes to balance the assembly, if it requires tons of mallory or what.

A Scat 4.5" forging should not require heavy metal to balance.

Lem Evans wrote:A Scat 4.5" forging should not require heavy metal to balance.

I worded that very poorly, sorry. I was wondering if that becomes an issue as you go larger than that?

1) What do you consider "Budget?

2) Whats the application?

3) How much power do you expect?

4) How long do you expect it to last?

1- 15,000

2- career tnt / whop on the local guys running 5.0's and faster

3- 1100 - 1200 n/a plus the spray

4- 2 years or 250 passes

the cage cert good to go that fast Nick?

I dont think you are going to build 1200hp on a $15,000 budget. Not one that will last past the initial tune up. And if you do, the first time you spary it, it will go >>>>>>> Ka Boom

I think he already has the head castings Curt, reuse his block, beltdrive, oil pan, nitrous system etc. You woud have money in getting the heads up to snuff, rotating assy.............few odds n ends.

richter69 wrote:the cage cert good to go that fast Nick?

no sir , the was in my 3 or 4th post in reguards to the additional items needed for safety. we were originally just talking about the short block expense , but i just gave Dave my budget for the entire carb to pan build

Thats $12.50 per horse. Give me $25,000.00 worth of N/A horsepower

richter69 wrote:I think he already has the head castings Curt, reuse his block, beltdrive, oil pan, nitrous system etc. You woud have money in getting the heads up to snuff, rotating assy.............few odds n ends.

I didn't know he had C or better heads.

bruno wrote:1- 15,000

2- career tnt / whop on the local guys running 5.0's and faster

3- 1100 - 1200 n/a plus the spray

4- 2 years or 250 passes

1) Recycling some of your existing parts and selling what your not going to use, 15K in additional money IMO should be reasonable. Just keep it simple.

2) I'm a career T&T guy anymore to..... and Not so much even that the last 2 years....BLA

3) 1000-1100 N/A is more in line IMO, But don't forget to include for convertors, gears, ect to match the new combo.

4) The durability will depend alot on the valve train, parts selected and a decent maintence schedule.

with all these 1000 hp p51 builds , do you think we could get 1050-1100 , my point is that i could do a set of max build p51 for way less then finishing then c-heads ....... sorry about going off topic