Mistake error oversite

Two years ago as many on here will remember, is when I had my TFS Street engine on the dyno, Well when it was first pulled I tightened valve lash and rolled the cam back, doing everything to make the engine think the cam was bigger. The engine responded with more power on every step, leading me and others to the conclusion it wanted more cam.

Now stepping forward to the time we tested the TFS proto type heads Charlie and I did for TFS on my 557 I brought a slightly different (bigger) cam with me to re test thinking the original cam was too small.

(Here is where the mistake comes in) I have always preached to degree every cam you install even on a stock rebuild. But this is the one and only time I didn't practice what I preached and it bit me in the butt. I installed this bigger cam while we were doing our proto type testing and didn't degree it. All the time thinking the Danny B belt drive would solve any timing mistakes the cam may of had if ground wrong. You see I was going to just move the cam in the engine till I found the sweet spot it wanted.

I ended up advancing the cam 8 degrees to get it to make the same power the smaller cam had made, and at that point I was out of adjustment on the belt drive, and stopped the test thinking the cam was just to big and that the smaller original cam was probably optimal.

Now fast forward to Monday night this week. I'm building a good friend of mine a A headed dome piston 514 and decided to use the cam tested above. As I began to degree the cam, very quickly noticed something was way wrong and found the cam with the roller 8 position gear and chain at the +8 degree mark the cam was retarded almost -5 degrees.

I had to jump a tooth and set the gear at the -6 mark to get it where I wanted it to be.

So my old 557 probably would have pulled a good bit higher hp number if if stuck to what I have always said about dialing a cam in. With the cam in the engine between 4-5 degrees retarded I killed a good bit of cylinder pressure. When I sized the newer cam I made sure to keep the overlap close to the same as the first one. I probably will never know how much was left on the table, but every little bit you can get is good.


Just thought I would share one of my many mistakes in life..................

Now I am hurt, I have told so many people, you would never make that mistake, it will take me days, maybe weeks to tell everyone I know, you screwed up.

You are forgiven brother. As we have spoken before. It can't be possible that both of us could be perfect.

bbf-falcon wrote:You are forgiven brother. As we have spoken before. It can't be possible that both of us could be perfect.

well.................just wait till i see you lucky for Don you got you game on!

cool40 wrote:well.................just wait till i see you lucky for Don you got you game on!

Lee, you don't happen to have a tilt auto column for a 91 F150 do you, or that Ford junk yard close to you, think he might have one?

cool40 wrote:well.................just wait till i see you lucky for Don you got you game on!

You should have heard Don when He saw me jumping a tooth on his deal to get it right...................

IDT-572 wrote:

cool40 wrote:well.................just wait till i see you lucky for Don you got you game on!

You should have heard Don when He saw me jumping a tooth on his deal to get it right...................

i'd loved to see the look on his face! i dont have a column but i'll check with them and see,i gota do another parts run for my 68.

[quote="cool40"]

IDT-572 wrote:

cool40 wrote:well.................just wait till i see you lucky for Don you got you game on!

You should have heard Don when He saw me jumping a tooth on his deal to get it right...................

i'd loved to see the look on his face! i dont have a column but i'll check with them and see,i gota do another parts run for my 68.[/quote

Thanks.................

Funny.. Today in the shop at work (fighter aircraft engines ), had a "pro" we work with tell us we could change out a lever arm (we found a problem with) because it had a blind spline to "make it the same".. so that makes it "match up"...

Yeah, the Tech Rep got the answer we expected... NO.

460s can, and should be degreed, with a little education

Some things on fighter aircraft engines are restricted

I too made a mistake somewhat similar to yours although of much different context!

When I was young, freshman in high school I think, three of us guys enjoyed the company of a lovely young classmate. Being the undergrad, I had to ride last! Didn't take long for me to realize something was wrong! It was way to difficult to piss! I spoke to my buddies about this, they said yea unless you want to go to the doctor with your parents there is an alternative to cure my new found pain. Of course I didn't want my parents to know, so I asked what was the cure. They told me to lay the infected item in the window seal and slam the window down on it and this would remove the problem. Damn, this was surely going to be rough, but anything to keep my parents from finding out!

Now here's where things take an unexpected turn. I did as the guys suggested. The problem, I passed out from the pain! When I woke, dad was standing over me in the doctor's office. Holly shit, what happened I thought and what was dad doing there and where was I? Well dad began to explain what my problem was and as dad's can be, understanding and have a keen sense to embarrass the hell out of you of concerns of this type!

As I tried to explain and embarrassed that he found me lying on the floor naked with the head of my pecker looking like a violet colored tulip, he said,"you don't need to explain to me, it was your mom that found you".

Now let me tell you, whatever mistakes you make in life, none can be worse than mine! Blake, your mistake wasn't as bad as you thought, was it!

LOL,
Dave.

LivermoreDave wrote:I too made a mistake somewhat similar to yours although of much different context!

When I was young, freshman in high school I think, three of us guys enjoyed the company of a lovely young classmate. Being the undergrad, I had to ride last! Didn't take long for me to realize something was wrong! It was way to difficult to piss! I spoke to my buddies about this, they said yea unless you want to go to the doctor with your parents there is an alternative to cure my new found pain. Of course I didn't want my parents to know, so I asked what was the cure. They told me to lay the infected item in the window seal and slam the window down on it and this would remove the problem. Damn, this was surely going to be rough, but anything to keep my parents from finding out!

Now here's where things take an unexpected turn. I did as the guys suggested. The problem, I passed out from the pain! When I woke, dad was standing over me in the doctor's office. Holly shit, what happened I thought and what was dad doing there and where was I? Well dad began to explain what my problem was and as dad's can be, understanding and have a keen sense to embarrass the hell out of you of concerns of this type!

As I tried to explain and embarrassed that he found me lying on the floor naked with the head of my pecker looking like a violet colored tulip, he said,"you don't need to explain to me, it was your mom that found you".

Now let me tell you, whatever mistakes you make in life, none can be worse than mine! Blake, your mistake wasn't as bad as you thought, was it!

LOL,
Dave.

Spoken only as eloquently as LivermoreDave can...!

IDT-572 wrote:

Two years ago as many on here will remember, is when I had my TFS Street engine on the dyno, Well when it was first pulled I tightened valve lash and rolled the cam back, doing everything to make the engine think the cam was bigger. The engine responded with more power on every step, leading me and others to the conclusion it wanted more cam.

Now stepping forward to the time we tested the TFS proto type heads Charlie and I did for TFS on my 557 I brought a slightly different (bigger) cam with me to re test thinking the original cam was too small.

(Here is where the mistake comes in) I have always preached to degree every cam you install even on a stock rebuild. But this is the one and only time I didn't practice what I preached and it bit me in the butt. I installed this bigger cam while we were doing our proto type testing and didn't degree it. All the time thinking the Danny B belt drive would solve any timing mistakes the cam may of had if ground wrong. You see I was going to just move the cam in the engine till I found the sweet spot it wanted.

I ended up advancing the cam 8 degrees to get it to make the same power the smaller cam had made, and at that point I was out of adjustment on the belt drive, and stopped the test thinking the cam was just to big and that the smaller original cam was probably optimal.

Now fast forward to Monday night this week. I'm building a good friend of mine a A headed dome piston 514 and decided to use the cam tested above. As I began to degree the cam, very quickly noticed something was way wrong and found the cam with the roller 8 position gear and chain at the +8 degree mark the cam was retarded almost -5 degrees.

I had to jump a tooth and set the gear at the -6 mark to get it where I wanted it to be.

So my old 557 probably would have pulled a good bit higher hp number if if stuck to what I have always said about dialing a cam in. With the cam in the engine between 4-5 degrees retarded I killed a good bit of cylinder pressure. When I sized the newer cam I made sure to keep the overlap close to the same as the first one. I probably will never know how much was left on the table, but every little bit you can get is good.


Just thought I would share one of my many mistakes in life..................

There is nothing wrong with occassional oversight; it keeps us "in-check" and we become better enlightened by the experience.

Paul