P-51 Street Build

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P-51 Street Build

Post  supervel45 on January 27th 2014, 1:45 am


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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  Carl on January 27th 2014, 12:26 pm

Being able to run on pump gas doesn't make it a "street engine"  Rolling Eyes 

A well built 650hp engine will outrun that build in anything that doesn't have to be trailered to the track.

http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=149929

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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  glenevans on January 27th 2014, 1:33 pm

This engine, in a street driven mustang ran 9.8's once he got his traction figured out - nearly a year after this article was printed. It is a nice build as stated for a street driven car  Smile 


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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  Carl on January 27th 2014, 1:52 pm

glenevans wrote:This engine, in a street driven mustang ran 9.8's once he got his traction figured out - nearly a year after this article was printed. It is a nice build as stated for a street driven car  Smile 


I'd be curious to hear how the car was set up (chassis, weight, trans, stall, gears, tires, etc).  

"Street driven" has a pretty broad ranging definition.

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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  glenevans on January 27th 2014, 1:56 pm

I would have to see if I can find that issue of PHR to refresh my memory also.

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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  Carl on January 28th 2014, 1:31 am

glenevans wrote:I would have to see if I can find that issue of PHR to refresh my memory also.

Think I found it...... http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/1205phr_project_fox_1993_ford_mustang/viewall.html

I only skimmed it, but from what I could gather it's a 93 Mustang (of unknown weight) with a TH400 trans that has an unknown stall (they launched at 4000), with 3.90 gears and 28" full slicks, running 9.80's....pretty much in line with what I predicted back in 2010.

Streetable?  I didn't see any mention of them actually driving it on the street.  Those 3.90 gears are going to buzz the engine at 3000 rpm doing 60 mph on the interstate while cooking that high dollar trans because the stall is so much higher than the cruising speed.  Then there's the cam they used, which isn't likely going to idle at a stoplight friendly rpm, and the lifters won't survive for very long in actual street use.  If they're going to talk about it being faster than 90% of the "street cars" at the track, they should at least drive it on the street to give some impression of it's ability to do so.  For a guy who only needs to run 45 mph surface streets to get to the local "cruising area" or Dairy Queen it'd be fine, but for most people the car in that article is a trailer queen, and as they stated in the article....slower than 90% of the other cars getting hauled in on a trailer.

The article does do a damn fine job of showing that it takes more than an engine to make a car run.  Over 100 passes to get it dialed in.  Sounds about right.

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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  BigBlockRanger on January 28th 2014, 2:12 am

Heck I'd drive it on the street and not even thing twice about it.
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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  supervel45 on January 28th 2014, 9:23 am

I don't think they ment daily driver or going out of town car. Weekend Warrior. The roller lifters were a bigger problem than the low gears and high stall convertors, on a big block with a mechanical roller cam. Used to be stuff hotter than this around here come out on Saturday Night.

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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  J.Toney on January 28th 2014, 10:03 am

"Street" is such a relative term. To me, its a combination of what your definition is of "street driven" and 
If you can actually make it work, all while enjoying it. After going on my first DW in '13 (we only spectated, and followed from Indy to Memphis), I can safely say alot of cars I had seen on trailers would get stomped by these dudes going 1000 miles. Now, did some run into troube? Yep. Multiple times? Yep. But one of my personal favorite deals was love/hate Eddie Miller driving his purple Duster. Tunnel rammed, SV-1's, predator headed, RB. Twisted Evil  Now to me, that's BADASS stuff. He does however use a Gearvendors unit I believe, but he didn't HAVE to. Just a solid upgrade to make the trek. 
Dude drives track to track, and was usually the last guy to make a pass. By then it would be around 90*. He didnt seem to go late from thrashing  on the car, just taking his time and checking things over. Then goes out and makes a mid-high 8 pass. Heads back to the pits, loads the car, and leaves. 
                                               IS THAT STREETABLE?! I think so.  cheers
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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  4thHorseman on January 28th 2014, 10:41 am

Its all in the definition. To me, there's streetable and practical. A true street car has to have a plate and legit registration. It can be driven about town without the noise attracting every cop within 10 miles. It don't overheat, rattle itself to pieces, or run out of fuel doing so. It can accomplish small jaunts on the freeway maintaining a respectable speed to get about town. You can take it out at 9pm, cruise all over town, stand on it a few times or more, and pull it back into your garage just before sun up.

That is my car. But practical? C'mon.

Does it have to be able to drive for hours on the highway from city to city? No. In this day, fuel prices are going to kill you before you even start worrying about prolonged rpm's and engin/tranny temperature, wear on those expensive, wide tires and the sustained pounding on the drive train. That all describes something practical. Like a new stang or camaro with a power adder. Drive it coast to coast on Nitto's and pull into a strip and run a 10 something if you did your bolt ons right. Some guys want this. Others like most of us are more hard core.
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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  BigBlockRanger on January 28th 2014, 11:25 am

I think some people have a tendency to say stuff, like "that is not streetable" or "roller lifters won't last on the street" without ever actually having tried it. It gets thrown out there a lot, but Drag Week has really redefined what a lot of folks think is streetable, especially with the N/A crowd.

3000 rpm on the interstate with a big block and the T-tops out, is freaking awesome and to me is really no big deal. Did it every day on DW '12 for over 1400 miles. Roller lifters were (and continue to be) a non-issue for me (.685" cam 260/270 @ 0.50). I run 3.55 gears, but have seriously considered swapping in my other housing with 3.90's. It'll idle all day long in traffic at 1100 rpm and never overheat.

Streetable is all about compromise and what you are willing to deal with.
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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  glenevans on January 28th 2014, 12:54 pm

I agree, street driven for fun, not your daily driven freeway cruising 30mpg work car. I also liked that the article outlined the process of dialing in the car - not just the motor part of it. We all noticed the OKC "street cars" were trailered to Cali ha ha  Smile 

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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  J.Toney on January 28th 2014, 1:09 pm

BigBlockRanger wrote:I think some people have a tendency to say stuff, like "that is not streetable" or "roller lifters won't last on the street" without ever actually having tried it.  It gets thrown out there a lot, but Drag Week has really redefined what a lot of folks think is streetable, especially with the N/A crowd.

3000 rpm on the interstate with a big block and the T-tops out, is freaking awesome and to me is really no big deal.   Did it every day on DW '12 for over 1400 miles.  Roller lifters were (and continue to be) a non-issue for me (.685" cam 260/270 @ 0.50).   I run 3.55 gears, but have seriously considered swapping in my other housing with 3.90's.  It'll idle all day long in traffic at 1100 rpm and never overheat.

Streetable is all about compromise and what you are willing to deal with.  
Yep
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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  supervel45 on January 28th 2014, 1:15 pm

BigBlockRanger wrote:I think some people have a tendency to say stuff, like "that is not streetable" or "roller lifters won't last on the street" without ever actually having tried it.  It gets thrown out there a lot, but Drag Week has really redefined what a lot of folks think is streetable, especially with the N/A crowd.

3000 rpm on the interstate with a big block and the T-tops out, is freaking awesome and to me is really no big deal.   Did it every day on DW '12 for over 1400 miles.  Roller lifters were (and continue to be) a non-issue for me (.685" cam 260/270 @ 0.50).   I run 3.55 gears, but have seriously considered swapping in my other housing with 3.90's.  It'll idle all day long in traffic at 1100 rpm and never overheat.

Streetable is all about compromise and what you are willing to deal with.  
 What was the spring pressure? The guys I was talking about where at 7-800lbs and over .700 lift.  At 550lbs and .630" lift, I had no problems either with a small block. I quess this what Carl ment? My point was people did it anyway on the weekend, and got by. I guess they should call it an ALL OUT STREET CAR to please everyone.

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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  Carl on January 28th 2014, 2:51 pm

glenevans wrote:We all noticed the OKC "street cars" were trailered to Cali ha ha   Smile 

Hell, they ride around on trailers to run on the street!   Laughing 

Maybe it's more of a western US thing, but for a lot of people the only way to get to the track is to drive an hour or more on the interstate, and doing so at 60mph is going to get you rear ended as most traffic is moving at 80mph.

There's no question a solid roller can live on the street (I've built several that have been in service for several years), but the cam used in the engine in that article is probably going to beat the lifters to death in short order.  It's not just spring pressure, but also the aggressiveness of the cam.  I think solid rollers got their bad reputation for not living on the street because guys see articles like this then expect a full race cam to live under daily driver conditions, when they could build a far more durable 650hp stroker and run the same number with bigger tires.

supervel45 wrote: I guess they should call it an ALL OUT STREET CAR to please everyone.

Street legal race car would be more accurate.

As for Drag Week....there are a lot of guys changing valve-train parts along the way.  Just a question of what level of maintenance you're willing to live with I guess.  Most people I deal with who are building a street car aren't interested in changing lifters and springs at all, let alone once a month or once a year.

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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  J.Toney on January 28th 2014, 4:42 pm

Pretty much my point, in the eye of the beholder. Some guys are willing to do whatever they think it'll take to make power, and try to balance in some reliability. It's like saying you can't run your street deal on E85. Says who? Maybe if you don't have it available for 300 miles. But if you want it bad enough, it's doable. That's another DW thing a few guys did.
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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  glenevans on January 28th 2014, 11:13 pm

Car Craft November 1999, has the article on Freiburgers pump gas 484 ci Dick Landy built hemi in a super bee. It ran 10.60s after spending upwards of $40k !!!! ouch. Easy to spend $$$ on this sport  Smile 

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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  466cj on January 28th 2014, 11:56 pm

supervel45 wrote:http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0906phr_big_block_ford_engine/      Nice build for a street engine                                          

Have to read the notes under the pictures....

Solid roller cam with 273/280 @ .050 and .787/.791 lift on a 109 LSA, and degreed in at 107. Nextek springs offer 535 lbs. open pressure, sounds a bit light...must be a typo...  Heads had a "fluff and buff" on the intake and light porting on the exhaust so not out of box. "Kaase said the out of box Victor intake is about as good as it gets". A 260/268@.050" and .726/.726 lift on a 108 LSA made 728 hp and 697 ft. lbs. torque. 10.9:1 CR.

They used a cast crank to save money then had it internal balanced with two slugs of mallory. They been better off starting with a forged crank.


Last edited by 466cj on January 29th 2014, 12:06 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fixed duration number)

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Re: P-51 Street Build

Post  supervel45 on January 29th 2014, 12:22 am

Good catch 466CJ. In the link to the Mustang they even increased the cam duration to 278/290 at .050" and widened the lobe seperation to 114 degrees to raise the power band. Those 535lb springs must be the new fangled roller lifter breakin springs LoL. Gotta watch the car rags closely. Suspect Still a Street Car, but barely.

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