Help me run on pump gas.

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Help me run on pump gas.

Post  hotrod1956 on July 2nd 2015, 5:41 pm

Want to keep my Dove heads if possible, am pulling the engine to check everything. Replacing oil pump, Comp cam 218/224 262/270 513/520 Lobe Sep 110, valve springs, timing chain and gears. Have a performer intake, 800 CFM Edelbrock Thunder series carb. Getting new electronic distributor, am also searching for headers. Only found 1 set of headers for this at $995.00. Am going to try doing some porting on the heads Per the Mad Porter. Am willing to try any tuning ideas to keep this together, no race gas. Have been reading about the Singh grooves, have not seen any positive proof about this. If I have to go with D3VE heads I will, trying not to. I would also like to thank everyone for having such a great site for a new guy to study Fords on. I have been studing it for a couple months along with other sites. Some people say they can run the high compression some say no. Thanks for any idea's or suggestions.

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Re: Help me run on pump gas.

Post  69F100 on July 2nd 2015, 8:32 pm

What are you building a 429 or a 460 if you are building a 460 use the factory dish pistons with the dove heads you will be good with 92 octane.
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Help me run on pump gas.

Post  hotrod1956 on July 2nd 2015, 9:01 pm

It is a 1971 429 thunderjet. I want to keep it a 429. If I have to I will change heads. I have seen so many people say they run a 10.5.1 Comp engine and have know problems. So how is it done. I have read about 160 degree thermostat, timing at 10 no more than 32 all in, no vacuum leaks, carb can't be lean, cold air intake, 93 octane. May try the Singh grooves if some one can tell me it worked for them. Wonder if Edelbrock airgap intake would help. Thanks for listening.




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Re: Help me run on pump gas.

Post  69F100 on July 2nd 2015, 9:14 pm

You could get a new set of dish piston to lower the c/r they may have to custom made might check. With prob piston they may have a set or make you a set.
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Re: Help me run on pump gas.

Post  rmcomprandy on July 2nd 2015, 10:31 pm

hotrod1956 wrote:It is a 1971 429 thunderjet. I want to keep it a 429. If I have to I will change heads. I have seen so many people say they run a 10.5.1 Comp engine and have know problems. So how is it done. I have read about 160 degree thermostat, timing at 10 no more than 32 all in, no vacuum leaks, carb can't be lean, cold air intake, 93 octane. May try the Singh grooves if some one can tell me it worked for them. Wonder if Edelbrock airgap intake would help. Thanks for listening.


There are many ways to get it accomplished if you have no interest in making any power.
If you already know what you are gonna do and are not open to suggestions which don't agree with your own thinking ... then you are probably asking the wrong questions.

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Re: Help me run on pump gas.

Post  butterbean on July 3rd 2015, 2:05 am

when you rebuild it the replacement head gaskets are .040 thick and that will lower the compression to about 10.25 to 1 and thats low enough for 93 pump gas and or you could also change the cam shaft to a custom grind that will allow it to bleed off some compression too, I would call and talk to one of the vendors on this site (like Randy or Scotty J) and ask about grinding you a cam for your application, hope this helps
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Re: Help me run on pump gas.

Post  hotrod1956 on July 3rd 2015, 7:17 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
hotrod1956 wrote:It is a 1971 429 thunderjet. I want to keep it a 429. If I have to I will change heads. I have seen so many people say they run a 10.5.1 Comp engine and have know problems. So how is it done. I have read about 160 degree thermostat, timing at 10 no more than 32 all in, no vacuum leaks, carb can't be lean, cold air intake, 93 octane. May try the Singh grooves if some one can tell me it worked for them. Wonder if Edelbrock airgap intake would help. Thanks for listening.


There are many ways to get it accomplished if you have no interest in making any power.
If you already know what you are gonna do and are not open to suggestions which don't agree with your own thinking ... then you are probably asking the wrong questions.

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Post  hotrod1956 on July 3rd 2015, 7:37 am

Thanks for the reply.

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Post  hotrod1956 on July 3rd 2015, 7:42 am

butterbean wrote:when you rebuild it the replacement head gaskets are .040 thick and that will lower the compression to about 10.25 to 1 and thats low enough for 93 pump gas and or you could also change the cam shaft to a custom grind that will allow it to bleed off some compression too, I would call and talk to one of the vendors on this site (like Randy or Scotty J) and ask about grinding you a cam for your application, hope this helps
Good idea on calling Scotty J. Will have to look up who Randy is. Thanks.

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Post  hotrod1956 on July 3rd 2015, 7:51 am

69F100 wrote:What are you building a 429 or a 460 if you are building a 460 use the factory dish pistons with the dove heads you will be good with 92 octane.
Might be a good idea. Know where there is a 460 very reasonable with a C-6. Then I could use the 460 heads on my 429 for another day.Thanks.

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Re: Help me run on pump gas.

Post  DaveMcLain on July 3rd 2015, 8:10 am

With a cam like the one in the original post the engine will be getting about another 20 degrees of duration at .050 vs the stock cam and this will make a tremendous difference in the low speed cylinder pressure and the ability to run on 93 octane. I'm not sure about the intake closing event because I don't know what the intake centerline is on the stock cam but I'll bet even if you put this new cam in on a 106 that it'll still be later than the stock cam.


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Re: Help me run on pump gas.

Post  rmcomprandy on July 3rd 2015, 9:12 am

Any "crutch" you use to simply be able to run pump gas would cost power.
Changing the heads to something like the D2OE-AB Police Interceptor heads would be the best thing to do, if you are set on keeping it a 429.

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Re: Help me run on pump gas.

Post  supervel45 on July 3rd 2015, 10:28 am

http://www.429-460.com/t20940-d20e-police-heads?highlight=D20e+headers I was thinking the same thing myself. He may have to check on headers though?

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Post  hotrod1956 on July 3rd 2015, 11:37 am

DaveMcLain wrote:With a cam like the one in the original post the engine will be getting about another 20 degrees of duration at .050 vs the stock cam and this will make a tremendous difference in the low speed cylinder pressure and the ability to run on 93 octane.  I'm not sure about the intake closing event because I don't know what the intake centerline is on the stock cam but I'll bet even if you put this new cam in on a 106 that it'll still be later than the stock cam.

DaveMclain thanks for your reply this is so what I am looking for. The cam I have come's in Comp cam complete kit sk34-238-4 with a 110 centerline. How do you think it will do with 110?

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Post  hotrod1956 on July 3rd 2015, 12:01 pm

supervel45 wrote:http://www.429-460.com/t20940-d20e-police-heads?highlight=D20e+headers  I was thinking the same thing myself. He may have to check on headers though?
Even with the Dove heads I can only find 1 Co (FPA) making headers and they are $995.00 for mid length headers. Thanks for the reply.

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Post  hotrod1956 on July 3rd 2015, 12:04 pm

69F100 wrote:You could get a new set of dish piston to lower the c/r they may have to custom made might check. With  prob piston they may have a set or make you a set.
Thanks for the reply. Might do just that.

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Re: Help me run on pump gas.

Post  supervel45 on July 3rd 2015, 12:36 pm

http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php You can run your cam spec.s through here and see what the dymanic compression will be. You can also retard the cam to lower it. Like Randy said it will be a compromise with the high compression and low octane. I would use the D3 heads myself. You get to do away with the rail rockers and get hardened exhaust seats as a bonus. The compression ratio will be in the mid 9 range and with your cam at 0 or advanced slightly, and more ignition timing, should make more low end power, where you need it with a heavy car.

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Post  hotrod1956 on July 3rd 2015, 6:08 pm

supervel45 wrote:http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php   You can run your cam spec.s through here and see what the dymanic compression will be. You can also retard the cam to lower it. Like Randy said it will be a compromise with the high compression and low octane. I would use the D3 heads myself. You get to do away with the rail rockers and get hardened exhaust seats as a bonus. The compression ratio will be in the mid 9 range and with your cam at 0 or advanced slightly, and more ignition timing, should make more low end power, where you need it with a heavy car.
Thanks for the info supervel45. Got a guy that wants to trade me some D3ve for my Dove heads. Thanks again.

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Post  hotrod1956 on July 3rd 2015, 6:12 pm

69F100 wrote:You could get a new set of dish piston to lower the c/r they may have to custom made might check. With  prob piston they may have a set or make you a set.
Thanks for the info, everyone has been very helpful on this site.

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Post  hotrod1956 on July 3rd 2015, 7:09 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:Any "crutch" you use to simply be able to run pump gas would cost power.
Changing the heads to something like the D2OE-AB Police Interceptor heads would be the best thing to do, if you are set on keeping it a 429.
Guess I am going to say uncle on this and get some other heads. People want my dove heads to put on there 460's. So I can trade anytime I want. Could just get some Edelbrocks and keep my flat top's. Thanks for the help and info. Can't wait to get this running.

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Re: Help me run on pump gas.

Post  supervel45 on July 3rd 2015, 8:47 pm

https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2004/05/EdelbrockFlowTest/index.php If you want to spend the money, the Edelbrock's are nice. They kind of copied the PI intake ports, and made the exhaust ports to fit regular headers, so that's a plus along with the weight savings. You will need roller rockers and hardened pushrods also.

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Post  hotrod1956 on July 3rd 2015, 9:27 pm

supervel45 wrote:https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2004/05/EdelbrockFlowTest/index.php   If you want to spend the money, the Edelbrock's are nice. They kind of copied the PI intake ports, and made the exhaust ports to fit regular headers, so that's a plus along with the weight savings. You will need roller rockers and hardened pushrods also.
supervel45 I went to the fordmuscle.com, they seem to like the Edelbrocks. Looks like they have a complete topend kit. Thanks for the help. Will move on this after this holiday weekend.

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Re: Help me run on pump gas.

Post  supervel45 on July 3rd 2015, 9:36 pm

If you go with the Edelbrocks, you may also want to get their headbolt kit, as they are different than stock oem. Some people use the stock bolts, but it is harder to get a socket on them. Now you have to decide between the 75cc and the 95cc chambers, since they are aluminum and you can get by with more compression. If you don't like paying for super all the time, go with the 95's.

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Post  hotrod1956 on July 3rd 2015, 10:08 pm

supervel45 wrote:If you go with the Edelbrocks, you may also want to get their headbolt kit, as they are different than stock oem. Some people use the stock bolts, but it is harder to get a socket on them. Now you have to decide between the 75cc and the 95cc chambers, since they are aluminum and you can get by with more compression. If you don't like paying for super all the time, go with the 95's.
Heck if I can stay with 10.5.1 I will go with the 75cc heads. I don't mind buying 93 octane. Thanks for info on the head bolts.

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Re: Help me run on pump gas.

Post  rmcomprandy on July 4th 2015, 11:05 am

A compression ratio of 10.5/1 would work fine with an aluminum head having minimal quench clearance and a cam of about 224 @.050" or larger.

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