Bushed Lifters

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Bushed Lifters

Post  BBF552 on December 28th 2016, 6:36 pm

I am building a 638 C head engine and having the lifter bores bored to .904 and bushed. Trying to decide between the Morel .904 lifters and the Crower Severe Duty HIPPO lifters. Anybody running either of these or have any opinions to which I should use?
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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Lem Evans on December 28th 2016, 7:00 pm

Both are good lifters.

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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Scott Foxwell on December 28th 2016, 7:51 pm

Morel. It's a better lifter.

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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  kjett on January 4th 2017, 10:42 am

Heard that Morel makes the Erson and PBM lifters, but looking at the PBM's, they look different. Any truth to that? In the same boat looking for a good .903 lifter for a new build. My engine guy can get the PBM parts for less money than the Morel, but don't want to get a bad copy and that be the cause of a potential failure.
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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  dfree383 on January 4th 2017, 10:43 am

I've run both and either one is a great choice IMO
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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  kjett on January 4th 2017, 10:49 am

dfree383 wrote:I've run both and either one is a great choice IMO

PBM and Morel?
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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  dfree383 on January 4th 2017, 11:03 am

kjett wrote:
dfree383 wrote:I've run both and either one is a great choice IMO

PBM and Morel?

Morel or Crower, I've never used Erson or PBM
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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Lem Evans on January 4th 2017, 1:12 pm

dfree383 wrote:
kjett wrote:
dfree383 wrote:I've run both and either one is a great choice IMO

PBM and Morel?

Morel or Crower, I've never used Erson or PBM

Morel makes many of...maybe all of The PBM/Erson lifters.

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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Straubtech on January 4th 2017, 1:58 pm

kjett wrote:
dfree383 wrote:I've run both and either one is a great choice IMO

PBM and Morel?

Morel makes some of PBM's lifters.

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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Curt on January 4th 2017, 2:05 pm

Remember that just because Morel makes it, doesn't mean that they are made to the same standards. The marketer tells them what they want and ask them to build it within their price parameters. If you want Jesel performance, you'll only have one choice.
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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Straubtech on January 4th 2017, 2:08 pm

Curt wrote:Remember that just because Morel makes it, doesn't mean that they are made to the same standards. The marketer tells them what they want and ask them to build it within their price parameters. If you want Jesel performance, you'll only have one choice.

Your not correct in your first statement.  Only difference is what is laser etched on the Tie bar sir.    And when it comes to quality I dont' think Hendrick Motorsports would be using Morel exclusively if the quality was not good.

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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Curt on January 4th 2017, 2:10 pm

Straubtech wrote:

Your not correct in your first statement.  Only difference is what is laser etched on the Tie bar sir.    And when it comes to quality I dont' think Hendrick Motorsports would be using Morel exclusively if the quality was not good.

I'm not saying that Morel's quality is low. I'm also not saying that the Morel lifter they use in nascar is the same one you can buy off the self. What I am saying, is that not all lifters are equal, especially if they are re-tagged.
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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Straubtech on January 4th 2017, 2:11 pm

Here is Morel's thank you to HMS...

http://www.johncalliesinc.com/pdf/JimmieJohnson_NASCAR_7thWin.pdf


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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Straubtech on January 4th 2017, 2:14 pm

Curt wrote:
Straubtech wrote:

Your not correct in your first statement.  Only difference is what is laser etched on the Tie bar sir.    And when it comes to quality I dont' think Hendrick Motorsports would be using Morel exclusively if the quality was not good.

I'm not saying that Morel's quality is low. I'm also not saying that the Morel lifter they use in nascar is the same one you can buy off the self.  What I am saying, is that not all lifters are equal, especially if they are re-tagged.

I can assure you from Morel they all are. Now they will build a special run of lifter for anyone, but the same exacting tolerances are in all their series of lifters. From the $250 a set stuff to the $6000.00 a set stuff. The other huge advantage that Morel has over any other manufacturer of lifters is in house heat treat.

There are only 2 suppliers to NASCAR that are branded lifter mfg in our industry and that is Morel and Jesel. Toyota builds there own and Roush/Yates was using a German company, but I have heard they may be coming back to Morel.

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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Curt on January 4th 2017, 2:22 pm

Straubtech wrote:Here is Morel's thank you to HMS...

http://www.johncalliesinc.com/pdf/JimmieJohnson_NASCAR_7thWin.pdf


Lets be clear. When Morel sends a set of lifters to HMS, HMS only needs to measure the diameter of one lifter because the other 15 are exactly the same or within .0001. I'm guessing and hoping that you're still measuring all of your installs.
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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Straubtech on January 4th 2017, 2:27 pm

Curt wrote:
Straubtech wrote:Here is Morel's thank you to HMS...

http://www.johncalliesinc.com/pdf/JimmieJohnson_NASCAR_7thWin.pdf


Lets be clear.  When Morel sends a set of lifters to HMS, HMS only needs to measure the diameter of one lifter because the other 15 are exactly the same or within .0001. I'm guessing and hoping that you're still measuring all of your installs.

The boys in "NC" take everything apart and check it. Morels tolerance on the tie bar lifters is .0004"

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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Scott Foxwell on January 4th 2017, 2:31 pm

Curt wrote:
Straubtech wrote:Here is Morel's thank you to HMS...

http://www.johncalliesinc.com/pdf/JimmieJohnson_NASCAR_7thWin.pdf


Lets be clear.  When Morel sends a set of lifters to HMS, HMS only needs to measure the diameter of one lifter because the other 15 are exactly the same or within .0001. I'm guessing and hoping that you're still measuring all of your installs.
Where do you get all this information?

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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Curt on January 4th 2017, 2:33 pm

Scott Foxwell wrote:
Where do you get all this information?

The interwebbiethingie.
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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  David Cole on January 4th 2017, 5:35 pm

Sorta in a different direction.....I have a set of Morel lifters in my 598. The Ultra Pro's. .875 diameter. In the next couple of weeks I'm going to pull them to be sent for a freshen up. Nothing wrong, but it's insurance. Pay a little now or a lot later. Just give the 598 a physical. Rebuild lifters, new springs, new Danny Bee belt.

Is it possible for Morel to convert them to their bushed roller lifter to get rid of the needle bearings?

Would I even want to?

Use is 7K rpm, little over .800 lift. 250/850 spring pressures.
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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Scott Foxwell on January 4th 2017, 10:11 pm

David Cole wrote:Sorta in a different direction.....I have a set of Morel lifters in my 598.  The Ultra Pro's.  .875 diameter.   In the next couple of weeks I'm going to pull them to be sent for a freshen up.  Nothing wrong, but it's insurance.  Pay a little now or a lot later.  Just give the 598 a physical.  Rebuild lifters, new springs, new Danny Bee belt.

Is it possible for Morel to convert them to their bushed roller lifter to get rid of the needle bearings?

Would I even want to?

Use is 7K rpm, little over .800 lift.  250/850 spring pressures.
Chris will have to confirm but I don't think Morel is doing any conversions and frankly I don't think it's necessary for what you're running. Keep on top of your spring pressures and make sure your geometry is right and your lifters should last many hundreds of passes. In my experience, when a needle lifter fails, it's usually not the lifter's fault. If you want the added insurance of a bushing lifter that's understandable but you have to remember; a bushed lifter is a maintenance item just like a bronze dist. gear. They will wear. The biggest difference between them and a needle roller is the bushing will give you a warning when it needs replacing instead of filling your engine with little steel pins. Wink

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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  68galaxie on January 5th 2017, 1:50 pm

Hello Chris,

Did Nascar rules dictate solid roller needle lifters instead of the better bushed lifters?
I am trying to wrap my head around this one. Why would Hendriks use a needle lifter instead of the better bushing type?

Cheers
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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Straubtech on January 5th 2017, 1:53 pm

68galaxie wrote:Hello Chris,

Did Nascar rules dictate solid roller needle lifters instead of the better bushed lifters?
I am trying to wrap my head around this one. Why would Hendriks use a needle lifter instead of the better bushing type?

Cheers

Bushing is not better. Rob's power. Bushing was designed by Morel to be a warning feature to tell you when the valve train is in failure mode and if not caught not destroy the engine when it goes catastrophic.

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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  68galaxie on January 5th 2017, 2:08 pm

Thank you Chris.

I initially thought (probably from manufacturers claims) that the bushing lifter had a far higher load capacity (300 X) and would outlast by a very large margin the needle type roller lifters. 
I do understand the "warning" that a bushed lifter offers over the needle type lifters. However what is the difference in actual lifter lifetime? any?

Cheers
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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  Straubtech on January 5th 2017, 2:58 pm

68galaxie wrote: and would outlast by a very large margin the needle type roller lifters. 
Cheers

That right there is the problem with the bushing lifter and how some market it. Just because it is a bushing doesn't mean it will last longer. The bushing is an insurance policy against catastrophic failure. The bushing lifter does give more spring load capacity to applications that really need larger lifters, but do to cost or machining use OEM .750" wheel stuff. In an offset application the bushing is a a better choice but will still need frequent rebuilding compared to an on center lifter.


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Re: Bushed Lifters

Post  steve1071 on January 11th 2017, 10:10 am

I have had real good luck with the isky std size bushed lifters ,they are offset for the Chead .
they have about 450 runs on them at this point and are still in nice shape .

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