Found this in the oil tonight..

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Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  HorsinAround on July 31st 2017, 11:26 pm

So I drained the oil tonight and found 2 little springs on the drain plug magnet and I have no idea where/what they could be from. And after seeing them, I don't want to run the motor again until finding the source. Can any one offer a clue? Engine is a 514, solid roller cam, kaase pump, Milodon 7qt pan/pickup, roller rockers. standard cam bearings,

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sRFc5w4tkhdbzKRN2
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ugFoVy5XXPugIht92


any help appreciated.
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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  Mark Miller on July 31st 2017, 11:53 pm

Is that off a couple Valve stem seals?

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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  stanger68 on August 1st 2017, 12:15 am

looks like a spring from a crankshaft seal. That's interesting.

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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  BBFTorino on August 1st 2017, 12:53 am

Yep, from the front seal.

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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  Mike R on August 1st 2017, 12:54 am

stanger68 wrote:looks like a spring from a crankshaft seal. That's interesting.

I was thinking the same thing

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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  Gregaust on August 1st 2017, 5:17 am

Yep front seal I was thinking too. No where else really

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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  69F100 on August 1st 2017, 5:18 am

Looks like the spring from the front crank seal to me to looks a little long for a valve seal. But you can pull the valve covers and check them 1st if none of them missing then pull the timing cover
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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  HorsinAround on August 1st 2017, 8:23 am

Front seal is what we thought of, but I would have expected the spring to be longer or if broke in 2 pieces, I wouldn't expect the pieces to be the same length. Here is another picture, and from it, you can see the one spring is stretched a bit, and if not for that I believe the 2 springs would be the same length I think.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/2YYETDbC4ssqBPKv1
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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  dfree383 on August 1st 2017, 9:40 am

Crazy
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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  Doug Rahn on August 1st 2017, 11:15 am

It would be easy enough to check if it's from two valve stem seals, otherwise it would have to be from the front crank seal. Nothing else internally that has springs like that!
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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  HorsinAround on August 1st 2017, 11:43 am

Doug Rahn wrote:It would be easy enough to check if it's from two valve stem seals, otherwise it would have to be from the front crank seal. Nothing else internally that has springs like that!

Yep, going to pull the valve covers and check the valve stem seals. if that's not it, I'll be pulling the timing chain cover this weekend.
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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  pmrphil on August 1st 2017, 12:45 pm

Definately a front crank seal spring - valve seals don't have that type of spring. If it's not leaking I wouldn't bother pulling it apart, the spring just puts tension on the sealing lip to prevent leaks.

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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  supervel45 on August 1st 2017, 12:50 pm

I went and looked at my timing chain cover front seal. The spring is towards the front of the cover and it is very hard to imagine it falling or breaking up and getting into the oil pan the way that it is made but, I guess anything can happen. Also seems like Ford could have made the seal changeable from the outside, oh well.

PS: It looks like you could inspect the spring pretty easily by just removing the balancer.


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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  BOSS 429 on August 1st 2017, 1:33 pm

the spring is supposed to be on the inside, NOT the outside, your seal is installed wrong, backwards
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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  HorsinAround on August 1st 2017, 2:05 pm

pmrphil wrote:Definately a front crank seal spring - valve seals don't have that type of spring. If it's not leaking I wouldn't bother pulling it apart, the spring just puts tension on the sealing lip to prevent leaks.
Not leaking at this point.

supervel45 wrote:I went and looked at my timing chain cover front seal. The spring is towards the front of the cover and it is very hard to imagine it falling or breaking up and getting into the oil pan the way that it is made but, I guess anything can happen. Also seems like Ford could have made the seal changeable from the outside, oh well.

PS: It looks like you could inspect the spring pretty easily by just removing the balancer.


BOSS 429 wrote:the spring is supposed to be on the inside, NOT the outside, your seal is installed wrong, backwards

On another site I read that the later model TC's had a seal that could be installed from the outside, (but yes the spring is to the inside). I don't remember if mine is like this, but if it is, can the seal be removed/installed without taking the cover off?

Next question is, if it is the crank seal spring, is there something else that could have caused the failure?
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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  BOSS 429 on August 1st 2017, 3:33 pm

when the seal was installed it most likely popped out,and finally made its way to the pan. just was not caught,or it just broke,and fell in the pan


coin toss to know what happened

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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  supervel45 on August 1st 2017, 4:06 pm

BOSS 429 wrote:the spring is supposed to be on the inside, NOT the outside, your seal is installed wrong, backwards

Not sure what's up with that seal. It's pressed in from the backside of the timing cover with the metal facing the inside of the engine.

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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  BOSS 429 on August 1st 2017, 7:49 pm

supervel45 wrote:
BOSS 429 wrote:the spring is supposed to be on the inside, NOT the outside, your seal is installed wrong, backwards

Not sure what's up with that seal. It's pressed in from the backside of the timing cover with the metal facing the inside of the engine.


Ive seen it plenty of times, this one im guessing has a large flange on it,and its in backwards
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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  DanH on August 1st 2017, 10:48 pm

Some install the seal backward. Say it holds vacuum better when done that way.

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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  rmcomprandy on August 2nd 2017, 12:21 am

supervel45 wrote:
BOSS 429 wrote:the spring is supposed to be on the inside, NOT the outside, your seal is installed wrong, backwards

Not sure what's up with that seal. It's pressed in from the backside of the timing cover with the metal facing the inside of the engine.

Then you have a later model seal put in an earlier model cover.

Early seals don't have a metal facing.

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Re: Found this in the oil tonight..

Post  supervel45 on August 2nd 2017, 5:48 am

[quote="BOSS 429"]
supervel45 wrote:
BOSS 429 wrote:the spring is supposed to be on the inside, NOT the outside, your seal is installed wrong, backwards

Not sure what's up with that seal. It's pressed in from the backside of the timing cover with the metal facing the inside of the engine.


Ive seen it plenty of times, this one im guessing has a large flange on it,and its in backwards[/quot

No it has the small/no metal lip flange like the old style. Yes it looks like it got in there backwards. Oddly the secondary lip does face the oil side and it did not leak.

As for the OP if he has the late model timing cover with the seal pressed on from the outside, he should be able to replace it by just removing the balancer.

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