Battery Cables?

Last year we had to run batts. in stock location, this coming season we can run them in the rear. My ? is, what do ya'll use for cable? I have about 60' of 2/0 welding lead, would this work o.k. Thanks.

That's what I'm using and it works fine. Make sure to use good solid connections on the ends, I prefer soldered over crimped any day.

Did you run 2 all the way, or ground somewhere in the rear to the frame?

The copper wire makes a much better conductor than a steel frame. If you aren't concerned about a little extra weight, run the cable.

A chassis guy once told me are you trying to start the engine or the Frame? if you are starting the frame ground it to the frame if you are wanting to start your engine connect the ground to the engine block.... pretty plain and simple.....and as Schmitty said solder the end it will give you better contact than any crimp you can do....



Randy

Thanks guy's, what I had thought about doing was grounding to the frame in the rear, then from the frame to the engine in the front, just to save making 2 runs. That's why I asked and I have plenty wire, so I'll run 2. Thanks again!!!

dirtbogger wrote:Thanks guy's, what I had thought about doing was grounding to the frame in the rear, then from the frame to the engine in the front, just to save making 2 runs. That's why I asked and I have plenty wire, so I'll run 2. Thanks again!!!

it's a little more hassle to run 2 wires but it will save you time if a short ever comes around and you have to look for it then you have way less places to look for contact.....also when you soldier the end make sure you use Rosin core.....


Randy

the Coug wrote:

dirtbogger wrote:Thanks guy's, what I had thought about doing was grounding to the frame in the rear, then from the frame to the engine in the front, just to save making 2 runs. That's why I asked and I have plenty wire, so I'll run 2. Thanks again!!!

it's a little more hassle to run 2 wires but it will save you time if a short ever comes around and you have to look for it then you have way less places to look for contact.....also when you soldier the end make sure you use Rosin core.....


Randy

Back when I was a maintenance man at the peanut blanching company here we had electric/battery operated fork lifts and cat. recommens soldliering the battery cable for 2 reasons one was for connection and the other to keep corrostion out of the calbe from the acid form the battery.The way I did it was put the the cable eye in the vise and heat it and fill 1/2 full of soldier the put the cable in and add some more soldier until it the coating started to look like it was going to melt let cool, you will tell that the soldier went up the cable.But becarful putting the soldier in or you will have the cable where it want bend the soldier will keep running up the cable.For the best results I have found is for the soldier to go about 1'' up the cable maybe this will help.
Jim

An as Randy said use the rosin core soldier

Rosin core solder is the way to go. You might look at your local electronics partshouse like Fry's Electronics... see if you can find some "glue filled" heat shrink tubing to go over the ends. It will help keep moisture out and the insulation from pulling back. It is also easy enough to cut several small pieces to go along the individual wires every foot or 2, and I would recommend using red on the positive cable for easy identification later.

^^^^^ this is how I do the ends. I also run a ground from the batt to the cyl head........dont forget to grind the paint off. If the heads are aluminum run a wire to join the heads..........you can kill crank trigger pickups if you dont.

Allso run a ground from the batt to the chassis.

If you are going to run a lot of electronics more grounds never hurt. I run one from the battery to the frame as well as from the battery to the front of the car. There I have it bolted through the firewall with a stud. On one side I run a ground strap from the engine to the ground and on the inside I use if to ground all my electronics stuff. Is it extreme, yes. But if you have ever tried to troubleshoot a grounding problem it can be a nightmare and take forever to find. I have never had that problem. I am sure I used 1/O cable on all three of my cars thought. It is big. I have also used both crimp connectors and solder and never had a problem with either. My Pinto has had this setup for about 20 years now with crimp connectors.

I don't see a problem using only the frame as the ground path on full chassis cars since it provides a large & solid surface area as the grounding path front to back (of course that is dependent on how well the chassis is welded). I would have more concern using the chassis as the ground path on back half & mini tub deals because at some point in the path back to front your relying more & more on layers of spot welded sheetmetal that could have rust in between, and not a true solid path.

I think the aluminum front/mid plates & painted/powercoated chassis are more of the problem in a bunch of cases anyway. Because of this I think a lot of grounding problems that might be solved by adding a full length ground cable could also be solved with just a short grounding strap/cable run from a block bolt boss to a clean spot on the chassis to bypass the motor/mid plates being used as the path. I have seen for/aft engine travel limiters have much the same effect acting as if they were taking the place of a short ground cable to the block. Car won't crank without bolting in the engine limiters, but spins over like crazy with the limiters installed.

In the past I have tried crimping the ends & also soldered them, and actually I prefer crimping them, then covering with heat shrinking to protect. Never had a crimped cable end come loose. But then I made tool for shrinking/compressing sides the crimp end down after the cable is inserted so it already bites the cable real tight even before punching the side of the end with a crimper. I have seen soldered ends fail due to racing vibration, the cable it's self just breaks right at the end of the solder. I think the ideal way would be if you could solder just the very tip of the cable strands inside the crimp end AND also crimp it just behind the solder, that would give you the best of both worlds. The crimp carries the vibration load & also some current load, and the solder joint current load only.

I use the solder on the ends, because of the corrosion and the connection, just like Cat,( and military) recomends. Getting the solder up the wire will help to alleviate the vibration breakage that Dave mentioned. I have seen where a crimped end did vibrate and break, because of compression of the strands creating stress points on the wire. A complete compression joint like used on high voltage wire is the best crimp, and even that will fail sometime. Moral of story, any connection can and will fail eventually, but if you can fight corrosion any solid connection will work just fine.

after I solder I crimp as well...........heatshrink it...........last forever.

schmitty wrote:I use the solder on the ends, because of the corrosion and the connection, just like Cat,( and military) recomends. Getting the solder up the wire will help to alleviate the vibration breakage that Dave mentioned. I have seen where a crimped end did vibrate and break, because of compression of the strands creating stress points on the wire. A complete compression joint like used on high voltage wire is the best crimp, and even that will fail sometime. Moral of story, any connection can and will fail eventually, but if you can fight corrosion any solid connection will work just fine.

No Chit crimps left me at the starting line once with no power to the fuel pumps cost me the final round............ NEVER again everything is soldiered now and will not use crimps any more.....


Randy

Sorry guys, a compression fitting for any large guage cable is by far better than a solder joint. There is a reason we dont solder any ANY wire in your house anymore. Heating of the cable during high ampere loads (extended cranking) heats the wire, and subsequently the solder up and over time causes it to break down making the joint less conductive and therefore compounding the solder breakdown. You cannot seal the wire up with solder with welder cable or any high strand wire anyway. You have to use heat shrink.
Proper fittings will have an anti-oxizing compound inside as well.
I'm not talking about the BS fittings you crimp with pliers or a hammer. They ARE garbage.

Granted on an application like this, you'll likely not use it enough to see the breakdown of the solder.

Diggindeeper wrote:Sorry guys, a compression fitting for any large guage cable is by far better than a solder joint. There is a reason we dont solder any ANY wire in your house anymore. Heating of the cable during high ampere loads (extended cranking) heats the wire, and subsequently the solder up and over time causes it to break down making the joint less conductive and therefore compounding the solder breakdown. You cannot seal the wire up with solder with welder cable or any high strand wire anyway. You have to use heat shrink.
Proper fittings will have an anti-oxizing compound inside as well.
I'm not talking about the BS fittings you crimp with pliers or a hammer. They ARE garbage.

Granted on an application like this, you'll likely not use it enough to see the breakdown of the solder.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHhhhhhhhhhh there is a BIG difference between house curcuits and wiring and car wiring... way less loads and 12 v. I have had soldier wiring on my car for mmmmmm sense 93 and not one time has it given me any problems as it did when it was crimped.....


Randy

I'm aware of the differences. High Amps is High amps, Volts doesnt matter.
When done properly, a crimp will outlast a solder joint 100% of the time.

After the Crimp connection lost me $2000 for the finals that one time I will never crimp them again.....soldier and heat shrink for me....


Randy

My battery cables are crimped. I would say the #2 cable would break before the crimp. Went to harbor freight and bought a set of 24" bolt cutters. Removed the blades and ground a V shaped notch in each blade. Reinstalled the blades. When the two blades are together the V notches make a diamond shaped hole. My homemade crimper has some serious leverage can really put the squeeze on a lug. Makes it like it like a factory crimp. I then covered the joint with a hard plastic adhesive heat shrink tube.

jasonf wrote:If you are going to run a lot of electronics more grounds never hurt. I run one from the battery to the frame as well as from the battery to the front of the car. There I have it bolted through the firewall with a stud. On one side I run a ground strap from the engine to the ground and on the inside I use if to ground all my electronics stuff. Is it extreme, yes. But if you have ever tried to troubleshoot a grounding problem it can be a nightmare and take forever to find. I have never had that problem. I am sure I used 1/O cable on all three of my cars thought. It is big. I have also used both crimp connectors and solder and never had a problem with either. My Pinto has had this setup for about 20 years now with crimp connectors.

This is what we do. The floating ground idea is great for fuel injected cars with lots of load. We ground to the chassis and the floating ground in the front. We like redundancy.

We crimp and heat shrink the big wires and soldier/heat shrink the small wires throughout the car.

the Coug wrote:After the Crimp connection lost me $2000 for the finals that one time I will never crimp them again.....soldier and heat shrink for me....


Randy

How do you know you would have won?

just a joke don't beat me up.

342g wrote:

the Coug wrote:After the Crimp connection lost me $2000 for the finals that one time I will never crimp them again.....soldier and heat shrink for me....


Randy

How do you know you would have won?

just a joke don't beat me up.

The guy was a friend of mine and I was dead on the tree that day he told me himself he didn't think he could caught me from watching me all day and how I was cutting the tree down, but he did cuz I had to let him run cuz my fuel pump wire lost contact.... lesson learned.... the next week it was all soldiered and heat shrinked never any more problems....



Randy

the Coug wrote:

342g wrote:

the Coug wrote:After the Crimp connection lost me $2000 for the finals that one time I will never crimp them again.....soldier and heat shrink for me....


Randy

How do you know you would have won?

just a joke don't beat me up.

The guy was a friend of mine and I was dead on the tree that day he told me himself he didn't think he could caught me from watching me all day and how I was cutting the tree down, but he did cuz I had to let him run cuz my fuel pump wire lost contact.... lesson learned.... the next week it was all soldiered and heat shrinked never any more problems....



Randy

check them throttle cables and shifter linkages real good too................

Ah hell, just twistem together and hope fur da best