connecting rods

while sitting here grinding on my connecting rods i've started wondering about the need to to this. is it cheaper to try and find a set of aftermarket rod for the effort and cost.

rods free - pressing off pistons $20.00
rod bolts - $54.00
machining - $145 - honing small end , resizing big end

total - $219.00


how much will a set of off brand H-beams cost and who might have some?

I would not put that much money into a stock set of rods, for not much more you can get I or H beams, the H beams being better. Someone here probably has a set for sale, if not I saw many sets on e-bay motors for around $450. new for eagle's, theres other non name brands cheaper that would still be better than stockers, just depends on what your plans are for your motor. Often you can find a used set of h-beams for $200, which is about what your spending just trying to improve a little bit on your stock rods. I would go with an upgrade , it gives you a measure of insurance for future engine up grades.

nothing wrong with stock rod's if used in a mild motor
but the cost to recondition them is just 2 much
and when it is all said and done you still have stock rods
not much room to grow if you want to ever improve your motor
you can find used set's
but the cost for a new set is a good investment
i rember awhile back i bought a set of sir rods for cheaper than i could get a set of stock rods redone

Theres a posting on craigs list for Sacramento CA. for a new set of eagle I beams for $150. These are the stock 6.605 length rods. Info is chris at 530-701-9918

I've yet to see a bridge made out of H-Beam.

If i get to pick...I'll take the I Beams every time. The principle advantage of H-Beams is that they do not look like stock rods.

lay an H beam on it's side and you get

An H-Beam laying on it's side........

Mark O'Neal wrote:I've yet to see a bridge made out of H-Beam.

If i get to pick...I'll take the I Beams every time. The principle advantage of H-Beams is that they do not look like stock rods.

I have yet to see an engine that has the same type load as a bridge.

the Question is if I beams are so good then why do stock Rods Fail so often? the Ford Rods are forged and probably better material than the aftermarkets, so why not use H beams they have better beam support and at just a small amount heavier... I say run the H beams.....


Randy

The quaility and process in a good I-beam rod are not similar to an average H-beam or an OEM I-beam

the Coug wrote:the Question is if I beams are so good then why do stock Rods Fail so often? the Ford Rods are forged and probably better material than the aftermarkets, so why not use H beams they have better beam support and at just a small amount heavier... I say run the H beams.....


Randy

In my opinion, a good portion of the failures are from people using them well beyond their design. I would venture to say that the majority of the failures are from guys trying to spin in excess of 6000 rpm, with heavy forged TRW pistons, and many of them spraying nos at it like they were hosing down a driveway. They are asking for way too much out of 40+ year old parts that they haven't inspected on a regular basis.

Once a guy has one come apart and destroy his engine, he buys a new setup and spends a few extra bucks on upgrades for the entire engine, and actually has parts designed somewhat closer to his goals... therefore, they hold up to his expectations. I doubt that in 40 years a used set of "raced hard every weekend" H beams from Scat or others would be any more desireable to someone trying to up their game than a set of stock rods today.

Curt wrote:

Mark O'Neal wrote:I've yet to see a bridge made out of H-Beam.

If i get to pick...I'll take the I Beams every time. The principle advantage of H-Beams is that they do not look like stock rods.

I have yet to see an engine that has the same type load as a bridge.

Twist

longroofracer wrote:

the Coug wrote:the Question is if I beams are so good then why do stock Rods Fail so often? the Ford Rods are forged and probably better material than the aftermarkets, so why not use H beams they have better beam support and at just a small amount heavier... I say run the H beams.....


Randy

In my opinion, a good portion of the failures are from people using them well beyond their design. I would venture to say that the majority of the failures are from guys trying to spin in excess of 6000 rpm, with heavy forged TRW pistons, and many of them spraying nos at it like they were hosing down a driveway. They are asking for way too much out of 40+ year old parts that they haven't inspected on a regular basis.

Once a guy has one come apart and destroy his engine, he buys a new setup and spends a few extra bucks on upgrades for the entire engine, and actually has parts designed somewhat closer to his goals... therefore, they hold up to his expectations. I doubt that in 40 years a used set of "raced hard every weekend" H beams from Scat or others would be any more desireable to someone trying to up their game than a set of stock rods today.

Add to that the simple fact that pretty much all aftermarket rods have enough redundant capability built into them to eliminate having to really worry about them.

But it is still more difficult to twist, or bend, and I-Beam than it is an H-Beam.

But it is still more difficult to twist, or bend, and I-Beam than it is an H-Beam.[/quote]


Mark I am not getting into it with you But how many engines do you know that use a rod that twist? I can not think of one single one Automotive or Industrial.... every application the rods work in a plain direct 90* of the crank and push the piston up and hold it on the down stroke from the combustion from the cylinder, if you have Twist in your Engine (rods) you have something severely Wrong, in My opinion the Hbeam is stronger than the I beam for the concept, say you were pushing on a piece of steel beam say 6 inches length. the I beam has smaller side girths and wider body. the H beam has wider side girths and smaller body, I know which one I would trust more, the one with more outside area.... that would be H beam.


JMHO
Randy

Im no engineer but it looks to me like...

On a H beam rod you have more meat in line with the crank throw. In my mind its stronger left to right wise. You also do not have the cut out at the big end for the end of the studs on each side.

On a I beam rod, to me it looks stiff all the way around. Front, back and side webs are close to the same dimensions.

http://www.speedclinic.net/shop/pics/eaglerods.jpg

http://www.lunatipower.com/Media/Images/I-beam%20WEBSITE%20.jpg

After more than 30 years of building alcohol pulling truck engines, my engine building acquaintance is dead set on using Oliver parabolic beam rods in all of his steel rod engines. Many of these motors are between 1350 and 1500 hp, N/A, 650", turing up to 9500 rpm. Just one man's opinion I suppose, but he has most definitely been there and done that.

-Jared, non-expert.

OldRedFord wrote:Im no engineer but it looks to me like...

On a H beam rod you have more meat in line with the crank throw. In my mind its stronger left to right wise. You also do not have the cut out at the big end for the end of the studs on each side.

That only matters if the rod stops turning on the crank pin.

the Coug wrote:But it is still more difficult to twist, or bend, and I-Beam than it is an H-Beam.

Mark I am not getting into it with you But how many engines do you know that use a rod that twist? I can not think of one single one Automotive or Industrial.... every application the rods work in a plain direct 90* of the crank and push the piston up and hold it on the down stroke from the combustion from the cylinder, if you have Twist in your Engine (rods) you have something severely Wrong, in My opinion the Hbeam is stronger than the I beam for the concept, say you were pushing on a piece of steel beam say 6 inches length. the I beam has smaller side girths and wider body. the H beam has wider side girths and smaller body, I know which one I would trust more, the one with more outside area.... that would be H beam.


JMHO
Randy[/quote]


It's just a conversation.

Baitshop wrote:After more than 30 years of building alcohol pulling truck engines, my engine building acquaintance is dead set on using Oliver parabolic beam rods in all of his steel rod engines. Many of these motors are between 1350 and 1500 hp, N/A, 650", turing up to 9500 rpm. Just one man's opinion I suppose, but he has most definitely been there and done that.

-Jared, non-expert.

Duane Gutridge 1750 (or so) on H-Beams...I have guys there on I beams too.....

I have always used I beam rods. built anything from 700hp bracket motors to 2000hp turbo motors. never had a problem so I have never changed.

All i can say is when i ran a heavy trw and a set of dove heads flat tappet the only thing i ever
broke was stock rods everything in the motor would look great but the rod would break.
And i paid to have them made into floaters and used the football rods .

So my advice would be heck yes spend the money for a set of aftermarket rods .It wont
put you in the poor house.

My suggestion would be to stop running bricks for pistons.

Weight increases exponentially to RPM. Or...if you used a dowel to locate the cap instead of the rod bolt (no allowing the cap to move around)


Put another way....light pistons make the rods stronger....so do shorter rods.

"Put another way....light pistons make the rods stronger....so do shorter rods."
Ah, the double edged sword. Shorter rods may be stiffer but...with a given deck height and stroke, that means a heavier piston.

Wasn't the advantage of a I-beam rod is that it is slightly lighter, and has less crankcase windage? no expert but I recall someone mentioning it before. I would still use H-beams for girth personally or upgrade to aluminum's!