Head/piston question

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Head/piston question

Post  85lebaront2 on September 1st 2010, 2:44 pm

I am in the process of building a 460 EFI engine for my 1986 F350. I am using the D9TE block, appropriate crank, a mild torque cam, F3TE heads, stock late (F4TZ) exhaust manifolds and retaining my stock non-catalyst exhaust system. My question is relating to pistons. Can I use the early 460 pistons, i.e. pre 1972 pistons with this without a problem?

The truck is a crew cab dually with a 3.55:1 gear. I will be running a modified WAY1 ECM which is an MAF, SEFI system and can control the E4OD transmission I am installing. I did leave the wiring for the knock sensor in the harness so I can use one if I need to.

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Re: Head/piston question

Post  dfree383 on September 1st 2010, 2:46 pm

yes they can be used.
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460 head piston question

Post  85lebaront2 on September 2nd 2010, 9:17 am

Ok, that's what I thought. Thanks. Now all I have to do is find someone who still sells the old pistons. Everybody I checked with tries to push the 72-86 pistons, the .240" dish which gives 8.0:1 cr.
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Re: Head/piston question

Post  dfree383 on September 2nd 2010, 9:39 am

KB has hypers in different configurations and Speed Pro / FM Sells a Hyper FT and various dishes too. They work fine for mild Street builds
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Re: Head/piston question

Post  Paul Kane on September 2nd 2010, 3:21 pm

85lebaront2 wrote: Now all I have to do is find someone who still sells the old pistons. Everybody I checked with tries to push the 72-86 pistons, the .240" dish which gives 8.0:1 cr.
Which old pistons do you want? The old 460 FI pistons? Those are readily available, both in the 88-92 (smaller) dish and the 93-96 (smaller yet) dish. How much compression ratio are you shooting for?

Paul
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RE: Head/piston question

Post  85lebaront2 on September 2nd 2010, 7:59 pm

I am looking to get between 9-9.5:1. I built on a number of years ago using the 68-71 pistons and D3VE heads and had previously built one using D0VE heads on a 74 short block which was supossedly around 9.7:1.
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Re: Head/piston question

Post  Paul Kane on September 3rd 2010, 3:01 pm

85lebaront2 wrote:I am looking to get between 9-9.5:1.
If you use the 1988-1991 applicable 460 FI pistons, deck the block to 10.300, and reinstall your F3TE heads, you will be in that very ballpark.

Paul
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Update on EFI 460 project

Post  85lebaront2 on April 1st 2012, 11:02 pm

I know it's been a while since i was on here, for some reason, probably because I wasn't on here, my account was deactivated. I am finally getting ready to build my engine. I have accumulated some pieces:

3 D9TE blocks, one in the truck, 2 others, one of which is known good, the other??
Cranks and rods to match
A set of TRW L2404F .040 over pistons
1 set of F3TE heads
1 set of F4TE exhaust manifolds
1 F2TE lower intake
An Edelbrock Performer Plus #2167 cam
A 90mm MAF from a 1995 Lincoln Continental DOHC 4.6L (supposed to be the same as the CA spec 460)
a WAY1 EEC and a TwEECer RT

The truck is a 1986 F350 crew cab DRW pickup running an E4OD (now) and 3.55:1 LS 10.25" rear. Since it is a 1986 over 8500 GVW vehicle it is non-catalyst so the EFI front pipes are hooked to the existing dual to the muffler 1986 system.

Can I get my desired 9-9.2:1 compression ratio by decking the block, and about how much? The WAY1 EEC does have knock sensor capability as it is from a 302 originally.

Thanks,
Bill Vose
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Re: Head/piston question

Post  rmcomprandy on April 2nd 2012, 10:32 am

NO ... you won't get to that compression ratio with a 90 plus cc head.

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Re: Head/piston question

Post  kjett on April 2nd 2012, 11:21 am

If you want to make the drive up to northern VA, I'll give you a set of early 70's stock rod's and pistons just to get them out of my garage!
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Rods and pistons

Post  85lebaront2 on April 2nd 2012, 12:42 pm

Where in Northern Virginia? I have a son who lives in Falling Waters WV and works in Linthicum Heights MD. Maybe I could get him to pick them up for me. He's coming down the weekend of the 20th.

Bill Vose
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Re: Head/piston question

Post  kjett on April 2nd 2012, 1:00 pm

I live in Springfield. I'll get all the numbers off the pistons and rods tonight for you. They came out of the block that I made my 466 from. Probably need some checking out, and new rings, but didn't look bad.
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Compression ratio

Post  85lebaront2 on April 2nd 2012, 1:20 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:NO ... you won't get to that compression ratio with a 90 plus cc head.

Ok, using the F3TE heads and the L2404F pistons, is it possible to get a fairly reasonable compression ratio? I was given the pistons by a friend who ordered them for an engine he never built.
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Re: Head/piston question

Post  rmcomprandy on April 2nd 2012, 7:38 pm

85lebaront2 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:NO ... you won't get to that compression ratio with a 90 plus cc head.

Ok, using the F3TE heads and the L2404F pistons, is it possible to get a fairly reasonable compression ratio? I was given the pistons by a friend who ordered them for an engine he never built.

If you can do the machining yourself ... YEA.
Angle mill the heads "0" to .100"; (correct the bolt hole angles and correction angle their intake face), which should)get the heads in the low 80's in CCs. Zero deck the block.

That should get you in the 9.4/1 range of compression ratio.

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Re: Head/piston question

Post  LivermoreDave on April 2nd 2012, 8:48 pm

I have a question. With cast iron cylinder heads and assuming the pistons have the appropriate amount of material to promote quench, will the ECM for this application be able to suppress any detonation issues during towing if the actual compression ratio is above 9:1?

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EEC ability to suppress spark knock/detonation

Post  85lebaront2 on April 2nd 2012, 9:56 pm

Yes it will, as long as it is enabled. The WAY1 EEC is originally for a 302 w/E4OD so it has the knock sensor provision. I actually have a spare knock sensor to use. I figured on mounting it on an aluminum block on the passenger side center of the intake (where the exhaust crossover would be on a carbureted engine.
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Re: Head/piston question

Post  rmcomprandy on April 3rd 2012, 12:01 am

85lebaront2 wrote:Yes it will, as long as it is enabled. The WAY1 EEC is originally for a 302 w/E4OD so it has the knock sensor provision. I actually have a spare knock sensor to use. I figured on mounting it on an aluminum block on the passenger side center of the intake (where the exhaust crossover would be on a carbureted engine.

ANYWHERE on an intake manifold is NOT a good place to install a knock sensor. To many other noises near the same frequency are present. Somewhere in a thick, solid part of the block or water jacket is much better.

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Knock sensor

Post  85lebaront2 on April 3rd 2012, 8:56 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
85lebaront2 wrote:Yes it will, as long as it is enabled. The WAY1 EEC is originally for a 302 w/E4OD so it has the knock sensor provision. I actually have a spare knock sensor to use. I figured on mounting it on an aluminum block on the passenger side center of the intake (where the exhaust crossover would be on a carbureted engine.

ANYWHERE on an intake manifold is NOT a good place to install a knock sensor. To many other noises near the same frequency are present. Somewhere in a thick, solid part of the block or water jacket is much better.

Ok, then that explains why Ford moved the 302 knock sensor from the left side of the intake to the back of the block in 87. I guess I'll have to see if there is enough meat in the back of the block near the oil pressure sender.
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