anti roll bar question

we the nhra inspector came to cert. the car he said it was missing 2-3 bars from being cert to 7.5 , he metioned something about the kidney bar , and something to the effect of the foot-well/trans bars

Fist_Full_Of_Dollars wrote:

whatbumper wrote:

Fist_Full_Of_Dollars wrote:

whatbumper wrote:

bruno wrote:mild steel , 8.50 cert .......no x braces under floor

sounds time for an upgrade to 25.5. You can go 25.5 with mild steel. IMO the x brace under the floor is very important on ladder bar cars to help distribute the ladder bar load throught the chassis.

I agree to a point. But to run the X275 stuff you are not going to be certified for the et and mph that you will need to run. Do you have any plans on upgrading the car or are you just going to throw more engine at it? IMO the car you have with the upgrades i mentioned ( even if you were to convert the whole thing to C/M which in itself would probably save you quite a few #'s) your car would be a good bit faster, react bettter to shock adjustments , and be more consistent period. Forget the double anti -roll and get to work on the NEEDED things.

what cert do you think these cars have?

Not disagreeing with you bumper at all. I totally agree that he needs an upgrade. I would upgrade the car one time though and go C/M. I would love to link you to a build on YB but this borad will not let me link anything without being a member for 7 days ------WTF?

yes , i was just planning on doing minor things to the chassis .......put the new engine in and test

your screen name was flagged ........ must be a maryland thing ????? you can post links now

Can't stress the "stiffen the chassis" statement enough. Most people just throw a cage in a car without thinking about what it actually does. Welding a cage to the 6x6 plates that NHRA allows is one of the dumbest things you can do IMO.

When the cage was installed in my old Futura 17 years ago the car picked up almost 4 tenths in the 1/4 mile and it only ran mid 13's at the time... It was always a street car back then and I almost had to learn how to drive it again. Too damn easy to break the tires loose form a 30mph roll with the new cage...

Never thought adding weight would go faster but the stifness forced the power to go where it needed to go...

bruno wrote:yes , i was just planning on doing minor things to the chassis .......put the new engine in and test

your screen name was flagged ........ must be a maryland thing ????? you can post links now

I figured thats what you had in mind. As far as the Maryland thing you are right.

Go check out this build and then check out the second link. This goes to show how important a stiff Chassis is. The car is now as far as we know the quickest 60' N/A 275 car. Pretty impressive for just upgrading a chassis the right way and NO ENGINE / DRIVETRAIN changes.

Todd Geisler 275 Malibu build >>>>.. http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=310899

Todd Geisler track proven 60' times with a 1.138 >>>>.. http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=508997

And before you guys flame me for the Chevy post, Todd built this car by hiself !!! It is a bad peice just look at the timeslips.

no doubt the work is incredible , thxs for the links .....

Just a little food for thought .....

Fist_Full_Of_Dollars wrote:
Just a little food for thought .....

lotta food for thought , i went thru the whole thread and good lord .....thats a 100 k chassis ......and i understand stiffing the chassis but there are plenty of cars going down the track without a promod chassis .........

There are simple ways to stiffen your chassis. Would that design be nice? Sure. But as you already stated there are many cars that "work" without everything in that build.

Copied from YB thread >>>

Well, the Malibu rebuild is coming to an end and in the next couple weeks we should be looking to get out and test.

Since there isn't a whole lot left to show in the rebuild thread, I thought it might be fun to play a guessing game.

Let's see who can guess the time slip incremental times.

Pre-rebuild setup:
- 79 Malibu naturally aspirated, small tire/stock suspension car
- 3258 lbs w/driver
- 582 bbc making 1056hp @ 7500, 811 ft/lbs at 6000-6500
- Rossler Terminator 5 1.80 glide
- Ultimate Converter 8", 6600 flash
- 12 bolt with 4.11 gears
- 295/65-15 Hoosier DOT D/R tires
- launch at 3500, shift at 8000, 8200 through the lights
- MSD 7531 typically set with 12 to 15 degrees taken out on the launch for 1.2 to 1.5 second with the launch retard.

typical times were:
1.25 60'
3.51 330'
5.43 @ 128 660'
7.09 1000'
8.51 @ 159 1320'
Average D/A 1500'

OK, new setup:
- Biggest change is weight reduction of 350 lbs, down to 2900 lbs w/driver.
- Also, rear end is now a TRZ Fab 9 with the same 4.11 gear ratio
rear tires will now be 275/60-15 Hoosier DOT's (unless M/T gets off their butt and releases the 3754X here real soon)
- front shocks revalved with the big gun rebound valving. Hoping to get a better control over the front end to take the wheelie bars off.
- If I can control the wheelie better, another goal is to start reducing how much timing is taken out off the line. Would be nice to start getting after it sooner in the run.
- initial runs will be made with the existing converter although discussions with Lenny have estimated the converter will tighten up 300-400 rpm. Will have it re-stalled once we have some data for comparison.

So there you have it.

Let the guesses fly to what the time slips will look like.

Todd
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Jason asked me at MIR Sunday what the 60' record was for a stock suspension, naturally aspirated, 275 drag radial car.

I told him I didn't know if anyone had ever kept track of this on N/A cars.

So it might be fun to see who's doing what, again criteria are:

1. stock suspension
2. 275 drag radial tire
3. naturally aspirated engine combination
4. maybe list your engine combination and race weight.

We've been tweaking on the Malibu and have got the chassis setup baselined fairly well. In the heat with a mild tune the 60' will usually be 1.20 to 1.22. A little firmer track and we can tune it to go 1.18 to 1.17. Tight track it'll go 1.16 to 1.15 and this past weekend we were shocked with an all time best of 1.138 on a decent tuneup in better air than we've run before.

Our combination:
79 Malibu
582 bbc
2940 lbs w/driver
5.162 @ 133.22 1.138 60'


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are missing the point. This is proof that a stiffer chassis can make you go faster. Is it a little extreme? YES. Do you need everything he has with all the bells and whistles ? NO. If you are wanting to run torwards the front of the class and be able to repeat your numbers time after time then I think your car needs some upgrades. You asked what changes and I listed what I thought would work for you and linked a build with some numbers that has the fastest N/A 60' times in 275 radial tire racing. I won't be surprised when Todd decides to step up to some juice or a turbo that he won't be at the very front of the field.

Bottom line , put the double AR and the new engine in and see what it will do. If it works then you did not need to do anything to the car. Sounds pretty simple.

i completely understand the point ....... to run nationanly(sp) with the front runners your gonna have to spend some coin ....no doubt ....more bars in the proper places will get the chassis to run faster with the same power ...point taken .

So what car do you have ? run ? just curious

not everyone has the coin to throw at a promod style chassis, honestly its more fun to go run some numbers with homemade junk.

Nick, Id toss a few more bars in what you have, sell off the 8.8 and lb stuff, get a killer 9" setup with stock suspension.................the SS stuff seems to really kick ass on these radial foxbody cars.

On the build above, a couple of 60 foot major components were changed. for one 350 lbs of difference. wow. also the front shocks valving makes a huge difference. the trz housing in itself probably helped a bunch.

am i saying the chassis changes didnt help. Nope. but how can we compare his old setup with his new setup and claim it was the result of a stiffer chassis.

now, before you come back with more yellowbullet data let me tell you this. I like to over build cars. And if Nick's car were mine the cage would be cut and and a 25.3 deal would go in with stock suspension. the point here is this, it is not our car. he wants to have fun and right now a completely new chassis is not in the cards. with a few more bars (which will get him to 25.5 cert and help out with chassis flex) he will get a great car that will do everything that HE wants out of it.

Nick, those ladderbar mounting pics you put on FB are scary, that deal needs serious help.

Nick, since we aren't talking a big coin "national event" build, you could just take a much more simplified approach for now.

1 Add the center floor X brace for the hell of it (fairly easy to do).

2 Add the driver side/passenger side floor diagonals only if you can get them in there without too much hassle (if not skip them for now).

3 If you don't have any diagonals running from somewhere on the main hoop down to & attach directly to the ladder bar crossmember (at/around the ladder bar chassis bracket attachment points) then add them (really needs to be done).

4 If you don't have full X door bars then add them (really needs to be done).

5 Drop the new power in and go have fun.

If it's to much power for the current chassis/tire the car will tell you.



[edit] And if a Digital 7 doesn't provide enough small tire "help" you might have to spend some coin on a Davis box for active real-time traction control.

whatbumper wrote:On the build above, a couple of 60 foot major components were changed. for one 350 lbs of difference. wow. also the front shocks valving makes a huge difference. the trz housing in itself probably helped a bunch.

am i saying the chassis changes didnt help. Nope. but how can we compare his old setup with his new setup and claim it was the result of a stiffer chassis.

now, before you come back with more yellowbullet data let me tell you this. I like to over build cars. And if Nick's car were mine the cage would be cut and and a 25.3 deal would go in with stock suspension. the point here is this, it is not our car. he wants to have fun and right now a completely new chassis is not in the cards. with a few more bars (which will get him to 25.5 cert and help out with chassis flex) he will get a great car that will do everything that HE wants out of it.

i agree,the 350#is a big deal......

Got the hint. I'll butt out. Not my car ,not my build. I'm sure you'll get it figured out. To clear one thing up though, the car mentioned is no 100k car either. He built the car hiself.

Fist_Full_Of_Dollars wrote:Got the hint. I'll butt out. Not my car ,not my build. I'm sure you'll get it figured out. To clear one thing up though, the car mentioned is no 100k car either. He built the car hiself.

no need to butt out ....... input and opinions are good ...... not everyone can build that type of chassis ......if that car was invoiced at a shop it would be close to 100k ....... lots of custom one off fab work

here are the pics Jon was refering to ......