BIG BLOCK FORD
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

A little help or insight from the pros please!

+9
norm
Paul Kane
pmrphil
69F100
hbstang
ustahava67
rmcomprandy
wickettoby1
BBFTorino
13 posters

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  BBFTorino May 21st 2022, 7:42 pm

The problem: I think the engine is oiling way too much to the top end. Anything above 3800-4000, it pukes oil out the passenger side breather....even though it is a closed type with a hose going into a catch can. The oil gets all over the place, and I can't race the car in this condition. The oil seems to be filling up inside the valve covers, and pushing out of the breather.

The combo: 557 cubic inch, 14:1 CR, solid roller cam with Lunati roller lifters. Paul Kane high volume oil pump, Milodon oil pan that holds 7 quarts, but I have 8.5 quarts in it.
The main and rod bearing clearances are on the tighter side of the specs. Mains are 'two thousandth's, nine hundredth's'
and the rods are 'two thousandth's, three hundredth's'....I use 10W/30 full synthetic Mobil 1.
Oil pressure is 25-30 at idle, and jumps to 60-65 at higher RPMs.

Now, I been reading online that Lunati roller lifters need a notch in the body to connect the oil hole with the "band" around the main body. I also read that they are specific as to their orientation regarding which way the tie bars are facing. Some people are reporting similar oiling conditions based on these above mentioned lifters and these tie bar orientations.
Are these brand of lifters really the cause of this?......what do you say?

BBFTorino

Posts : 907
Join date : 2015-12-31

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  wickettoby1 May 21st 2022, 10:09 pm

We’re all of the drain backs radius’d to help return flow when the engine was built?

wickettoby1

Posts : 352
Join date : 2016-02-02
Location : SE Michigan

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  BBFTorino May 21st 2022, 11:02 pm

wickettoby1 wrote:We’re all of the drain backs radius’d to help return flow when the engine was built?
Yes Sir. I radius'ed the drain back holes and added one to the front of the block through the 'China wall' where it drains down the timing chain area. Also, the drainback holes on the heads and the block match up very well, and the head gasket does not overhang the holes.
I know a lot of people don't like high volume oil pumps, but I been running this pump for quite a few years on my last engine (before I scattered it all over track) and it's been flawless!

BBFTorino

Posts : 907
Join date : 2015-12-31

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  rmcomprandy May 22nd 2022, 12:54 am

Crankcase pressure is going up the drain-backs toward the atmosphere not allowing the oil to drain. Use NO breathers in the valve covers and breath the crankcase through the valley somehow or fix the blow-by situation.

rmcomprandy

Posts : 5790
Join date : 2008-12-02
Location : Roseville, Michigan

http://www.rmcompetition.com

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  ustahava67 May 22nd 2022, 10:54 pm

8.5 quarts in a 7 quart pan might be the issue
ustahava67
ustahava67

Posts : 56
Join date : 2009-11-30
Age : 60
Location : Caldwell, Idaho USA

Mark Miller likes this post

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty lifters

Post  hbstang May 23rd 2022, 1:36 pm

running the high volume pump,you have to check the lifters to make sure the tie bar/oil holes are towards the inside of block.also,if there is a grove on the lifter body to the oil hole,make sure it is very small,maybe ,005-.010 in depth/width at most.it will flood the top end just as you descibed,and as rpm increases like you say.
i would check lifters for sure first.
hbstang
hbstang

Posts : 243
Join date : 2012-10-29
Location : socal

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  69F100 May 23rd 2022, 3:12 pm

Had the same problem after I built my 552 Rich boss429 told me to get restricter push rods I called Smith Brothers and ordered a set. That fixed my problem putting to much oil up top.
69F100
69F100
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 5335
Join date : 2009-01-04
Age : 55
Location : Irwinville Ga.

Mark Miller and 738drvr like this post

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  BBFTorino May 24th 2022, 9:14 pm

ustahava67 wrote:8.5 quarts in a 7 quart pan might be the issue
Well, I had to do that, as 7 qts was just not enough!, it was sucking the pan dry.

BBFTorino

Posts : 907
Join date : 2015-12-31

Mark Miller likes this post

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty lifters

Post  hbstang May 24th 2022, 10:56 pm

thats definetly the lifters.your best bet is restrictors in the pushrods,as new lifters wont be cheap.make sure they are installed correctly.
hbstang
hbstang

Posts : 243
Join date : 2012-10-29
Location : socal

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  BBFTorino May 25th 2022, 12:15 am

So the small oiling hole in the lifter body is installed opposite of the oil galley in the lifter bore? With the tie bars towards the center of the engine?.....this will limit the oil going up through the pushrods? I had the installed with the tie bars closer to the cylinder banks, and the small oil hole lined up with the oil passage in the block.
The lifters are untouched. There is no scribe or groove between the oil hole and the 'open' part of the lifter body.
Should I flip them around and put the small groove in place?

BBFTorino

Posts : 907
Join date : 2015-12-31

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  wickettoby1 May 25th 2022, 12:50 am

Has the engine had this oiling issue since “birth”? The directions for the comp SR’s that i have in my 547 say to put the tie bars in towards the valley.

wickettoby1

Posts : 352
Join date : 2016-02-02
Location : SE Michigan

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  pmrphil May 25th 2022, 9:20 am

Yes, tie bars should be facing the center, not the cylinder bank. The hole in the body is "metered" by lifter to bore clearance, so as to not flood the top end. It should NOT be in line with the oil gallery. Take the lifters out, and install them properly (without a notch) and your oiling issues should be gone. The only time I've needed a notch on the lifter body it was as others have said, .005 deep is plenty, but I wouldn't do that first, only after running the engine to ascertain an actual need for one.

pmrphil

Posts : 164
Join date : 2016-10-29

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  rmcomprandy May 25th 2022, 11:08 am

wickettoby1 wrote:Has the engine had this oiling issue since “birth”? The directions for the comp SR’s that i have in my 547 say to put the tie bars in towards the valley.

Be certain they are not small block lifters using a big block tie-bar.

rmcomprandy

Posts : 5790
Join date : 2008-12-02
Location : Roseville, Michigan

http://www.rmcompetition.com

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  Paul Kane May 27th 2022, 1:59 pm

BBFTorino wrote:So the small oiling hole in the lifter body is installed opposite of the oil galley in the lifter bore? With the tie bars towards the center of the engine?.....this will limit the oil going up through the pushrods? I had the installed with the tie bars closer to the cylinder banks, and the small oil hole lined up with the oil passage in the block.
^^^Yes, this is the reason for your excess top end oiling.  Flip the lifters to the correct orientation and the issue will dissapear.


BBFTorino wrote:The lifters are untouched. There is no scribe or groove between the oil hole and the 'open' part of the lifter body.
Should I flip them around and put the small groove in place?
Not yet.  First, evaluate top end lubrication one the orientation is corrected.  Also, about a thou is all you need. Any more than that and you will just recreate your excess top end oiling fiasco again.
Paul Kane
Paul Kane

Posts : 997
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : San Francisco Bay Area

http://www.highflowdynamics.com

hbstang likes this post

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty lifters

Post  hbstang May 27th 2022, 2:11 pm

well thats your problem!dont put any grove on the lifter body,the clearance in the lifter bore will be enough.let us know how that turns out.
hbstang
hbstang

Posts : 243
Join date : 2012-10-29
Location : socal

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  BBFTorino May 27th 2022, 7:01 pm

I did'nt touch the lifters, just flipped `em around and going to put back together (waiting on intake gaskets). Thanks for the replies. I did'nt buy the lifters new, so I did'nt get any installation instructions. But it makes sense to put the oil hole opposite of the main feed passage!

BBFTorino

Posts : 907
Join date : 2015-12-31

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  norm May 28th 2022, 10:05 am

You can prime it with the intake off if you want to check how it's oiling the top now.
norm
norm

Posts : 239
Join date : 2009-08-06
Location : michigan

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  Dave De May 31st 2022, 9:31 am

BBFTorino wrote:I did'nt touch the lifters, just flipped `em around and going to put back together (waiting on intake gaskets). Thanks for the replies. I did'nt buy the lifters new, so I did'nt get any installation instructions. But it makes sense to put the oil hole opposite of the main feed passage!

Lifters installed 180 degrees out is definitely the problem. You are going to be fine after the proper orientation is established. The oil pressure will be higher as well but the lifters may need a scratch at the feed hole to the body opening if they are made by Morel. Ive been there with two sets of Morels that needed modifications. Now running BAM's and they are perfect out of the box.
Just check to see if Morel made those before you make adjustments on the oil feed hole. Kinda crazy when you can go from too much to not enough oil flow.
Dave De
Dave De

Posts : 675
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Highland, MI

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  Mark Miller May 31st 2022, 11:30 pm

Dave De wrote:
BBFTorino wrote:I did'nt touch the lifters, just flipped `em around and going to put back together (waiting on intake gaskets). Thanks for the replies. I did'nt buy the lifters new, so I did'nt get any installation instructions. But it makes sense to put the oil hole opposite of the main feed passage!

Lifters installed 180 degrees out is definitely the problem. You are going to be fine after the proper orientation is established. The oil pressure will be higher as well but the lifters may need a scratch at the feed hole to the body opening if they are made by Morel. Ive been there with two sets of Morels that needed modifications. Now running BAM's and they are perfect out of the box.
Just check to see if Morel made those before you make adjustments on the oil feed hole. Kinda crazy when you can go from too much to not enough oil flow.

Does Morel make the Lunati Solid Roller BBF lifters?

Mark Miller

Posts : 1696
Join date : 2009-09-01

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  rmcomprandy June 1st 2022, 12:05 am

Mark Miller wrote:
Dave De wrote:
BBFTorino wrote:I did'nt touch the lifters, just flipped `em around and going to put back together (waiting on intake gaskets). Thanks for the replies. I did'nt buy the lifters new, so I did'nt get any installation instructions. But it makes sense to put the oil hole opposite of the main feed passage!

Lifters installed 180 degrees out is definitely the problem. You are going to be fine after the proper orientation is established. The oil pressure will be higher as well but the lifters may need a scratch at the feed hole to the body opening if they are made by Morel. Ive been there with two sets of Morels that needed modifications. Now running BAM's and they are perfect out of the box.
Just check to see if Morel made those before you make adjustments on the oil feed hole. Kinda crazy when you can go from too much to not enough oil flow.

Does Morel make the Lunati Solid Roller BBF lifters?

Crane used to but, I don't know who does now days.

rmcomprandy

Posts : 5790
Join date : 2008-12-02
Location : Roseville, Michigan

http://www.rmcompetition.com

Mark Miller likes this post

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  Dave De June 1st 2022, 9:29 am

Morel brands are shown on the Morel site and yes Lunati is one of them. This doesnt mean that all of their name brand lifters are made by Morel. If you find some commonality with the part number between Morel and the name brand I would say that's a certain match. You can also contact companies like PBM and they will tell you if they are Morel. Straub tells you they are Morel.

https://morellifters.com/dealers

Anyone here that is looking for new lifters please consider BAM. You can purchase them thru people like Lem or most cam companies like Jones.

https://bamrollerlifters.business.site/

http://jonescams.com/


Last edited by Dave De on June 1st 2022, 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
Dave De
Dave De

Posts : 675
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Highland, MI

dfree383 and Mark Miller like this post

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Lifters are the issue

Post  beech17201 June 1st 2022, 1:38 pm

Howards mechanical roller lifters restrict the oil flow to the top best. I've been using them for 7 plus years with no issue and top end issues are gone. I even stopped using lifter bore bushings 3 years ago as they are not needed with them.

beech17201

Posts : 2
Join date : 2020-05-28

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  BBFTorino June 16th 2022, 3:04 am

Well, flipped 'em around and put it back together....oil pressure went from 25 psi at idle, to 75 psi at idle!
I think I'm going to switch to a thinner oil and see what it gets.

BBFTorino

Posts : 907
Join date : 2015-12-31

pmrphil and Doxnoogle like this post

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  Dave De June 16th 2022, 12:35 pm

Now that you dont have oil flying up top. Check that you've got oil going up top. I hope you do because if not those Morels will need to be modified.
Dave De
Dave De

Posts : 675
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Highland, MI

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  snuff98 June 16th 2022, 1:53 pm

Last year I worked on an engine I had built about 15 years ago and it has a set of crane lifters with the "scratch" from the oil hole to the band. Every other set I used including Lunnati, Morel, Bam all had to have the modification that the cranes had from the factory. This was on aftermarket blocks and old factory stuff even a couple of chebys.

snuff98

Posts : 235
Join date : 2016-08-04
Age : 51
Location : Hessmer Louisiana

Back to top Go down

A little help or insight from the pros please! Empty Re: A little help or insight from the pros please!

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum