Stroker Heads and Cam....

Hey guys!  Okay, I'm building a 532" stroker for my '74 Cougar and, having been kind of out of the loop lately, was curious as to which heads would be a good fit for my application.
Already have the stroker kit and the compression with 75cc chambers should be around 9.7:1. Pistons are for standard location valves.
This is a heavy street car, so emphasis on torque and throttle response rather than high RPM horsepower is more of what I'm after. It has a C6 in it now, but plans are to swap in a manual.
Ease of installation and use of factory type intake and exhaust port locations are important.

Lastly, are hydraulic roller cams still frowned upon?

Standard valve reliefs will limit you to Edelbrock and AFR heads. Kaase and SCJ have a different valve relief requirement.

Aren't the TFS heads standard valve layout as well?

1EFF100 wrote:Aren't the TFS heads standard valve layout as well?

You are right the TFS Streets would work for standard valve layout.

Dave De wrote:Standard valve reliefs will limit you to Edelbrock and AFR heads. Kaase and SCJ have a different valve relief requirement.

I thought Doug had to notch his pistons when he went to the new AFR's?

The old aluminum CJ's will work with a regular CJ valve relief if you can find any.

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017/03/building-ford-460-stroker/

I saw these floating out there. The link above is to check the part number and discription. They are not mine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255653685898?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=255653685898&targetid=1645685073248&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9027791&poi=&campaignid=16730423415&mkgroupid=135815925780&rlsatarget=pla-1645685073248&abcId=9300841&merchantid=6296724&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6_CYBhDjARIsABnuSzo_hfXJMfblPrJwt6SIoCD8PVXi1Wu-t1-ZSlKROkg_nReOvfLWEocaAnodEALw_wcB

I don't trust the 2.20" intake valve discription on the heads in the add. When you Zoom in on the valves they look like they are almost touching but, it's kind of hard to tell.

Paul had the run down on the serial numbers on some of the A429 stuff on the clipping deal with these.

Some good info in this link if anyone runs across this thread later.

https://www.460ford.com/threads/a514-cam-head-question.103770/

Sorry Op for getting off so for on this tangent. I will do about anything to not recomend Pro Comps over a Ford part or a American company and was running out of choices. The Blue Thunder stuff is hard to come by also.

supervel45 wrote:

Dave De wrote:Standard valve reliefs will limit you to Edelbrock and AFR heads. Kaase and SCJ have a different valve relief requirement.

I thought Doug had to notch his pistons when he went to the new AFR's?

The old aluminum CJ's will work with a regular CJ valve relief if you can find any.

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017/03/building-ford-460-stroker/

I saw these floating out there. The link above is to check the part number and discription. They are not mine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255653685898?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=255653685898&targetid=1645685073248&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9027791&poi=&campaignid=16730423415&mkgroupid=135815925780&rlsatarget=pla-1645685073248&abcId=9300841&merchantid=6296724&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6_CYBhDjARIsABnuSzo_hfXJMfblPrJwt6SIoCD8PVXi1Wu-t1-ZSlKROkg_nReOvfLWEocaAnodEALw_wcB

I don't trust the 2.20" intake valve discription on the heads in the add. When you Zoom in on the valves they look like they are almost touching but, it's kind of hard to tell.

Paul had the run down on the serial numbers on some of the A429 stuff on the clipping deal with these.

Some good info in this link if anyone runs across this thread later.

https://www.460ford.com/threads/a514-cam-head-question.103770/

Sorry Op for getting off so for on this tangent. I will do about anything to not recomend Pro Comps over a Ford part or a American company and was running out of choices. The Blue Thunder stuff is hard to come by also.

Thanks for the links!!

1EFF100 wrote:...I'm building a 532" stroker for my '74 Cougar and,...was curious as to which heads would be a good fit for my application.
Already have the stroker kit and the compression with 75cc chambers should be around 9.7:1. Pistons are for standard location valves.
This is a heavy street car, so emphasis on torque and throttle response rather than high RPM horsepower is more of what I'm after. It has a C6 in it now, but plans are to swap in a manual.
Ease of installation and use of factory type intake and exhaust port locations are important.

Well prepped D0VEs are still a viable option, especially in a build with the needs expressed here.

Paul Kane wrote:

1EFF100 wrote:...I'm building a 532" stroker for my '74 Cougar and,...was curious as to which heads would be a good fit for my application.
Already have the stroker kit and the compression with 75cc chambers should be around 9.7:1. Pistons are for standard location valves.
This is a heavy street car, so emphasis on torque and throttle response rather than high RPM horsepower is more of what I'm after. It has a C6 in it now, but plans are to swap in a manual.
Ease of installation and use of factory type intake and exhaust port locations are important.

Well prepped D0VEs are still a viable option, especially in a build with the needs expressed here.

Right on, Paul. I do have a set of big valve D0VEs from Scotty, but I have plans for those on another 460.

Thanks.

Bruce

Well, personally I'm kind of leaning towards the ported TFS heads.

And, since no one has commented on the hydraulic roller cam inquiry and told me not to, I think I'll go with one.

The hydraulic roller stuff works fine, just make sure to use quality lifters

1EFF100 wrote:Well, personally I'm kind of leaning towards the ported TFS heads.

And, since no one has commented on the hydraulic roller cam inquiry and told me not to, I think I'll go with one.

A hydraulic roller set-up is only a wear detriment with a stud and guide-plate valve train when needing to use the short pushrods.
Bolt Down or shaft type valve trains seem to show little increased valve stem or guide wear.

Mark Miller wrote:

supervel45 wrote:

Dave De wrote:Standard valve reliefs will limit you to Edelbrock and AFR heads. Kaase and SCJ have a different valve relief requirement.

I thought Doug had to notch his pistons when he went to the new AFR's?

The old aluminum CJ's will work with a regular CJ valve relief if you can find any.

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017/03/building-ford-460-stroker/

I saw these floating out there. The link above is to check the part number and discription. They are not mine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255653685898?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=255653685898&targetid=1645685073248&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9027791&poi=&campaignid=16730423415&mkgroupid=135815925780&rlsatarget=pla-1645685073248&abcId=9300841&merchantid=6296724&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6_CYBhDjARIsABnuSzo_hfXJMfblPrJwt6SIoCD8PVXi1Wu-t1-ZSlKROkg_nReOvfLWEocaAnodEALw_wcB

I don't trust the 2.20" intake valve discription on the heads in the add. When you Zoom in on the valves they look like they are almost touching but, it's kind of hard to tell.

Paul had the run down on the serial numbers on some of the A429 stuff on the clipping deal with these.

Some good info in this link if anyone runs across this thread later.

https://www.460ford.com/threads/a514-cam-head-question.103770/

Sorry Op for getting off so for on this tangent. I will do about anything to not recomend Pro Comps over a Ford part or a American company and was running out of choices. The Blue Thunder stuff is hard to come by also.

Thanks for the links!!

You're Welcome. Here's a good one on the Blue Thunder heads, except with the Chevy exhaust ports. They were made with standard Ford and raised ports also.

https://www.460ford.com/threads/would-these-blue-thunder-heads-be-suitable.134833/

As for as the OP it seems like with 532 cubes and around 10/1 compression, roller cam and a manual trans in the works that low end torque won't be an issue and more flow would be a bonus. The problem is P-51's have dried up. Pistons can be notched but, I get it's a hassle. TFS's it is, sounds like a good plan.
,

/// Was going to mention cams and powerband curves,nevermind.

WoW May Ship? Jan 2023 on the TFS stuff.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/cylinder-heads/product-line/trick-flow-powerport-325-cylinder-heads-for-ford-429-460?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&gclid=CjwKCAjw1ICZBhAzEiwAFfvFhAmNm0BgJr6BTB86A2bf15Slp93zhGx03IrzB6MC_z1yxm9tF5vitRoChBEQAvD_BwE

https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-5341t010-c01

^ Out of stock and a Rail Road possible Strike set for this Friday 9/16/2022.

https://www.railwayage.com/freight/class-i/railroads-prepping-for-strike-action-aar/

Either way shipping going up if you can get them.

Hope you can get some OP, if you see a set might want to grab them.

supervel45 wrote:WoW May Ship? Jan 2023 on the TFS stuff.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/cylinder-heads/product-line/trick-flow-powerport-325-cylinder-heads-for-ford-429-460?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&gclid=CjwKCAjw1ICZBhAzEiwAFfvFhAmNm0BgJr6BTB86A2bf15Slp93zhGx03IrzB6MC_z1yxm9tF5vitRoChBEQAvD_BwE

https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-5341t010-c01

^ Out of stock and a Rail Road possible Strike set for this Friday 9/16/2022.

https://www.railwayage.com/freight/class-i/railroads-prepping-for-strike-action-aar/

Either way shipping going up if you can get them.

Hope you can get some OP, if you see a set might want to grab them.

Well, that completely figures. lol. They have the SCJs and Edelbrocks in stock. I don't have the correct pistons for the SCJs, and I don't believe the unported Edelbrock CJ style heads would be any better than the Scott Johnston big valve, ported D0VEs I have now, in fact they may not be as good.
I might be forced to use the D0VEs on this engine and figure something else out on the other 460 I have on the back burner. I do have a nice set of heads I got from Paul Kane that would probably work for it, though.
Decisions, decisions.

supervel45 wrote:/// Was going to mention cams and powerband curves,nevermind.

Go right ahead, man.

How much if any have the D0VE's been shaved?

Pump gas deal?

Need to figure the head deal out before you get into cams in my opinion.

I will say this much, around here guys seem to have problems with lobes going flat on FT's and a lot of them are going Hyd. Roller on new builds of all brands.
For the mild stuff if you don't mind the extra price they don't seem that bad to me and I like the idea of less valve spring pressure then a mechanical roller and all that goes along with the lifter maintainance.

Also need to pick your transmission before your cam.

How far is Paul's shop? Maybe he has some kind of piston notching template? Randy had mentioned something about it could be done that way awhile back I believe? It's a long shot but, free to ask.

Doug went from Edelbrock CJ's to I believe to AFR 290's and I "think" he matched a Victor intake to them on his 460? At least at his cubic inch's he thought they had picked up noticeable low end torque.

I don't even know if you can get AFR's though,LoL/Not.

Oh Well on the AFR idea I guess, new ones anyway.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/airflow-research-afr/part-type/cylinder-heads/make/ford/engine-size/7-5l-460

Look at marks Post about the foundry. Could be.

https://www.429-460.com/t28640-it-seems-that-p51s-arent-going-to-available-any-time-soon-what-about-scjs-for-a-502

Jon Kaase, Scott Johnson and Charlie Evans had some good SVO SCJ and P-51 flow and Dyno numbers in the middle of the page of the link below.

Much other good cylinder head info also. Anyways enjoy the great amount of Data that the OG's spent much time/work getting it in one place. The List of Names is Long so please read the thread for all of them.

https://www.429-460.com/t122-cylinder-head-info-gathered-by-djohagin

OP I don't know remember this part of the thread {I guess you have seen it before?} above but, I thought it may be helpful to your limited choices at this point.

The afr heads valve relief isn't close to the standard intake valve relief it is close to the scj-p51 intake valve location but not close enough .Piston companies have the specs.and can make what ever you want .The afrs are really nice and they did give my car an increase in low end .My 60 ft. picked up a tenth .Those are the 285 intake ports.These AFRs replaced a set of Edelbrocks .They weren't so bad after all .The AFRs have such nice bowl work and a good valve job with a back cut already in place .For this street car if you have some worked over dove heads and aren't trying to have every last hp. use them .I went with AFRs intake manifold I didn't like the port mis match with my victor but in reality I might be better than the AFR intake . Regardless with that many cubes this should be a runner with ported doves Eds. AFRs what ever .Doug

Hell Doug on these medium to low compression stroker pistons with a gigantic dish you would think they would cut/cast them all like this and call them a Dual Valve relief and be done with it.

Probably has something to do with the mold maybe and the thin area?

https://www.coasthigh.com/Ford-532-557-33-3cc-Reverse-Dome-SRS-Pistons-p/14804.htm

Post #58 for a nice close up picture.

https://www.460ford.com/threads/are-the-kaase-p-51-heads-worth-over-5-000.249337/page-3

Probably going to go with the D0VEs, since I don't have to wait for them, and stick with the tried-and-true hydraulic flat tappet this time around.
The hydraulic roller cam and lifters are a pretty big expense in themselves and then add Yella Terra or similar bolt down rocker system to stabilize the oddball rocker movement, and you have a decent chunk of change. Not that I'm cheap, mind you, but that money could be better spent on things that I really need, such as headers, carburetor and all the ancillaries that were destroyed under the hood during the engine bay fire.

manofmerc wrote:The afr heads valve relief isn't close to the standard intake valve relief it is close to the scj-p51 intake valve location but not close enough .Piston companies have the specs.and can make what ever you want .The afrs are really nice and they did give my car an increase in low end .My 60 ft. picked up a tenth .Those are the 285 intake ports.These AFRs replaced a set of Edelbrocks .They weren't so bad after all .The AFRs have such nice bowl work and a good valve job with a back cut already in place .For this street car if you have some worked over dove heads and aren't trying to have every last hp. use them .I went with AFRs intake manifold I didn't like the port mis match with my victor but in reality I might be better than the AFR intake . Regardless with that many cubes this should be a runner with ported doves Eds. AFRs what ever .Doug

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



I mentioned some of the SJC/P-51 Intake Valve Relief Pockets could be used with standard valve angles on the deep dish stroker pistons.

The Radial Clearance is Still a Problem Though.

You can likely get away with it with lower lift cams.
If you are very close to the recommend clearance you are using you can retard the cam some to increase it. Most cams now are ground with at least a 4 degree advance. You will move you power band a little higher in the RPM range with the expense of some low end torque.



Check your radial clearance though very carefully on the intake valve. Below is a picture with the added fly cut for the standard valve angle. Keep in mind it will look different on a 4.39" piston the a 4.650" piston as the shape of the cut will be smaller on the outside wall.

https://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/88801

Below is a link to Kaase's Prints on the SR-71 and P-51 Pistons;

https://jonkaaseracingengines.com/tech/#jp-carousel-632

https://jonkaaseracingengines.com/tech/#jp-carousel-2162

Here is a good link from this site on checking radial clearance.

https://www.429-460.com/t253-what-is-the-minimum-radial-clearance-for-piston-to-valve-clearance

Double Check your piston to valve clearance and Also Double Check That The Pistons ordered are Correct. With so many BBF Valve Angles out now.

1EFF100 wrote:

supervel45 wrote:WoW May Ship? Jan 2023 on the TFS stuff.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/cylinder-heads/product-line/trick-flow-powerport-325-cylinder-heads-for-ford-429-460?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&gclid=CjwKCAjw1ICZBhAzEiwAFfvFhAmNm0BgJr6BTB86A2bf15Slp93zhGx03IrzB6MC_z1yxm9tF5vitRoChBEQAvD_BwE

https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-5341t010-c01

^ Out of stock and a Rail Road possible Strike set for this Friday 9/16/2022.

https://www.railwayage.com/freight/class-i/railroads-prepping-for-strike-action-aar/

Either way shipping going up if you can get them.

Hope you can get some OP, if you see a set might want to grab them.

Well, that completely figures. lol. They have the SCJs and Edelbrocks in stock. I don't have the correct pistons for the SCJs, and I don't believe the unported Edelbrock CJ style heads would be any better than the Scott Johnston big valve, ported D0VEs I have now, in fact they may not be as good.
I might be forced to use the D0VEs on this engine and figure something else out on the other 460 I have on the back burner. I do have a nice set of heads I got from Paul Kane that would probably work for it, though.
Decisions, decisions.

Usually, just machining an appropriate intake valve notch in the pistons you have works very well.

Well, picked up a new bare set of AFR 280s. Was going to have to buy new spring packages anyhow, so might as well buy new valves, screw-in studs and guide plates as well.
Now to find someone who can properly machine the pistons for the AFR intake valve notch. Kind of need to find someone relatively quick as the parts are all at the machine shop ready to be balanced.