Roll bar for my F150 regular cab

How much roll cage do I need for safety belts? I'm not 100% on how I would have to design the roll cage. Could / Should I use mounting plates and only attach the cage to the cab or go through the cab and attach to the frame? Would it be a good idea to tie the seats into the roll bar?


I'm under the impression that I don't have to have a NHRA spec design cage. My goal is to be as secure and safe in case of a hard lick or wreck. Would CM be worth it?

Here is the seats I will be ordering.

If you are going to the trouble to put a roll cage in I would tie it to the frame everywhere

69F100 wrote:If you are going to the trouble to put a roll cage in I would tie it to the frame everywhere

I really don't want to bite off more than I can chew. If it would be best to tie the cage into the frame, I would rather find someone to do it for me. That being said, who could build the cage for me that does excellent work and can get it knocked out and back to me? With no drama, no excessive turn around time and does what they say they are going to do and more. I'd probably get them to build a transmission mount, shifter mount, fuel cell area and a set of long bars. (Just little things, a guy that knows what he is doing could knock out 5 times faster than I could.)

I will be willing to haul the truck up to 8-12 hrs away for a shop like I'm talking about.

You need to understand those of us with chassis shops have alot coming in and going.... with that said what you just described is not a 3 day deal.

gmsmkr wrote:You need to understand those of us with chassis shops have alot coming in and going.... with that said what you just described is not a 3 day deal.

Correct me if I'm wrong; it shouldn't take longer than 4 weeks? If it was my full time job, I had the tools and experience of a chassis man I don't see how it could take longer than 1-1/2 week once you get the materials in? (Roll bar with harness tabs, roll bar tied into frame, seats mounted, fuel cell compartment, transmission crossmember and two long bars with solid clevis joints.)

Please tell me if I am expecting too much? I wouldn't want to set un-reasonable goals just to have a chassis shop tell me they can and then not follow thru.

Call the chassis shop of your choice and ask them what kind of time line your looking at to do the things you want to do..

It would be 2 weeks before I could get it in my shop if it was in my yard right now and with in those 2 weeks I would have all the materials I needed to do the job. Then your looking at another 3.5 weeks to be completed if it was a pre bent cage deal cause they never fit like there supposed to its always something that's off. If it's a custom bent cage it would take a tad longer being it's fitted to the chassis perfect.

This is just my time frame every shop will be different...

I'd get the truck together and running first and have some fun with it.

Then do a stage 2 and do a cage and chassis upgrades.

dfree383 wrote:I'd get the truck together and running first and have some fun with it.

Then do a stage 2 and do a cage and chassis upgrades.

After talking it out here a little, I agree that would be my best option. Who knows, I might want to take the truck a little further towards being a race vehicle. Or, it could piss me off and I decide to go a totally different route. I have to remember that my main goal is to start having fun! I wouldn't be having fun if the truck was kept from running due to my lack of sticking to my plans.

I know exactly what I would purchase with the money right now! That would be a set of wheels and tires. I think I am going to go with a set of Real Wheels's, Wide 5's. Or use a set of cheap steel wheels for the slicks and buy a purtie set of 17" Weld wheels with street tires.

I have some more chassis questions.

Can you install a roll bar in a truck and not use rearward kickers? Would it still provide a layer of safety without them? If not, could they be ran below the rear window and work?

I have only seen one company that makes a pre-bent roll bar and cage. I dont remember who made it, but I do remember it wasn't as tight to the cab as I want. I'd rather have it made out of CM as well. The truck is all ready a heavy weight.

Most people won't ever appreciate how much actual real-world time & labor goes into doing good chassis/fabrication work until they try it themselves. Then when they do try a large number of people get overwhelmed & realize "wat da fug did I get myself into". That's why there are so many half finished (and often now totally fuuked up) chassis kit projects for sale out there these days.

IMO mild steel tubing vs 'moly tubing doesn't really change the time/labor factor a lot, both take time. The thinner wall 'moly tubing does have to be fit tighter/more accurately for a tight weld joint (thinner wall = less actual time spent against the grinding wheel, but tighter/more accurate fit = a lot more trips to & from the grinder). And the thicker wall mild steel tubing even with a slightly looser fit weld joint does take time to fit as well (thicker wall = a lot more actual time spent against the grinding wheel).

And all the small time consuming extra touches on a correctly done cage job really chew up tons of time. Like after tacking the basic cage together, then knocking the tacks loose at the 6x6 plates (or out riggers) to drop the cage legs through the floor so you can weld-up the tops of all the normally un-accessible cage/roof weld joints. Or sanding off the black/gray tubing scale at/around any weld joint for a better weld with less weld puddle contamination. Or wiping down the inside of tubing before tacking/welding (to remove oil & grinder dust from inside) so it doesn't effect/contaminate the weld puddle. Or drilling all the small pin-holes close to every weld joint so the pressure build up from heat during welding doesn't cause a blow-out of the weld puddle. All these needed small extra touches might not sound like they take a lot of extra time, but they just kill a day's progress.


The pisser for me was always that one guy that has never fit a piece tubing for Tig welding, but walks in the shop and says "how hard can it be to fit a piece of tubing, you just chop, chop, grind, grind, DONE"........yea, not even close.

jones wrote:......Can you install a roll bar in a truck and not use rearward kickers?...........could they be ran below the rear window and work?

An NHRA/IHRA 8.50 & slower legal cage requires at least 2 rear support bars to prevent the main hoop from collapsing backward. These 2 bars must be welded in (not bolt-in or removable), must be installed at an angle of at least/no less than 30* from vertical, and IIRC the 2 rear bars have to attach directly the top horizontal part of the main hoop. Or they might have to attach within 5" of the horizontal part of the main hoop, (can't remember if that 5" spec is only for a roll bar, or both roll bar & roll cage).


Roll bar/roll cage must be attached directly to the OEM frame (or to fabricated outriggers on the OEM frame) if the car/truck has a "real" frame. Use of 6x6 plates are only for uni-body cars without a "real" OEM frame, or without a fabricated tubular frame.


A NHRA/IHRA legal "roll bar" is required in all cars running from 11.00 to 11.49. Convertibles & dune buggy type vehicles rules are a little different ET vs roll bar.


A NHRA/IHRA legal "roll cage" is required in all cars running 10.99 to 8.50, or exceeding 135mph. If it's a full bodied car with an unaltered firewall, floor, and body running between 10.00 & 10.99 a roll bar can be used in place of a roll cage.


Cars 8.49 & faster require a cage/frame that's SFI legal, not NHRA/IHRA legal.

i understand that.

(This is just my WAG, I don't mean any disrespect if it is unrealistic and if it's too much time please don't hold me too it! LoL)

Believe it or not I'm actually an Estimator. I've been an estimator for over 15 years. My specialty is plumbing, mechanical piping and custom machinery.

For kicks and giggles: Just off the top of my head I would figure.

24hrs to build and instal a main hoop and tie into factory frame. (10hrs)
10hrs to tie seats into main hoop with integrated shifter mount. (4hrs)
8hrs to build and instal transmission cross member (4hrs)
6hrs to build and install long bars (probably only take 2hrs)
16hrs to build fuel cell compartment. (8hrs)
10hrs for clean-up (1/2 hr)

74hrs for labor only and I tend to be high on my labor estimates. If I was bidding on a job with multiple worker atmosphere for a company. ( I would doubt I would win the job with those hours )
When a single professional man with no one stealing time off his job it would be only 28hrs. He could then charge a higher labor rate and move more projects through the door.

jones wrote:..........Just off the top of my head I would figure..............

Meh, you often can't always rubber-stamp a generic time frame on any race car fabrication labor, tons of variables in any build. Sometimes yes you get close, and sometimes it's not anywhere close to being in the ballpark. It's not like the reality tv show car builds where they magically always get the job done just in a nick of time. Lost labor time will almost always find it's way into a project screwing with estimates on completion times. Some guys can Tig weld at a fairly fast pace, and some guys have a real slow Tig weld puddle speed. Some guys can weld all the way around a 360* round tube weld joint in only two long 180* start/stop passes. And some guys need 4 to 5 shorter start/stop passes to get all the way around the 360* weld joint.    


A full roll cage is a good example of "lost time" because there are a ton of different ways to layout/bend the bars for any one given car's body style. For example a main hoop bent for a stock suspension or back-half car with a full factory interior will always fit like shit in a full chassis build having no factory interior and all the inner body structure cut out of the outer body shell. This can cause times where you might lose a week or more of fab time just mulling over all the different ways of designing/laying out a tight fitting cage. And then end up losing even more fab time (after actually starting the cage) if some part of a design/layout you wanted to do ends up not working exactly as you wanted. Then you have to stop, back up, & rework the design losing even more time.


All the different ways you can design/layout a cage has a lot to do with why generic "one size fits all" cage kits sometimes fit kinda OK, and sometimes they just fit like rotting crap.


A smart fab guy will even spend/lose the extra time to plan out exactly where all the tack welds will be placed on the cage vs where the final weld passes will start/stop. This is because it's usually never a good idea to start a weld pass on top of a cold tack weld. A tack weld usually gets "burned in" better towards the end/at the end of a weld pass.

Thats good point's. Usually I design a approval drawing and the customer gets exactly what he approved even if it doesn't work or looks like crap. That when the change orders start coming into play. I would definitely want the chassis shop to do what works and looks good rather than give it back and say, "there you go, it look like crap but thats what you wanted!"

I completely understand now.

So it's better to tell someone to do the work time & money?
I hear horror stories of some chassis shops. Their work look like art but, there is a lot of people that attempt to get them to do work but end-up having to repo their cars. Then realizing that they used the parts you brought for your car on someone else. Is the any hints to look for if your about to run into head aches?

Who are some good chassis shops in the southeast?

jones wrote:........So it's better to tell someone to do the work time & money?.........

Some shops charge by the hour/an hourly rate, some charge by the whole completed job, some piecemeal the job out charging many multiple times as each different task (of the whole job) gets done.

And some charge by "time/labor landmarks" during the job. An example is if someone wanted a chassis kit welded up to fit their body, and also needed the body gutted. #1 = a 1/4 labor payment and is a deposit to hold your place in line before you get it in the door, #2 = a 1/4 labor payment made before the body is gutted and attached to the chassis jig, #3 = a 1/4 labor payment made before the chassis and body mounts is/are assembled/fitted/tacked together & made ready for final welding. #4 = a 1/4 labor payment made before the chassis gets 100% finish welded & taken off the chassis jig. At this point four 1/4 labor payments have been made meaning the total labor costs for this job is now paid in full. A fifth non-labor "materials" payment is made when the car owner picks up the body/chassis. This is to reimburse the shop for any extra tubing, plate, nuts, bolts, hardware, (or etc, etc) used to complete the job that wasn't originally included in the "chassis kit," or originally supplied by the car owner, at the start of the project.