Oil Consumption Issue

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Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on May 2nd 2017, 7:24 pm

Haven't been on here in quite some time but thought I'd throw this out there. Having an issue with my SCJ headed 521 burning oil. Engine is new more or less. Built in '15 made a couple passes but then wasn't able to get back to car till recently. Oil is on all 8 plugs. Smokes at idle but after driven smoke clears up to an extent and plugs clean up (no longer wet with oil ). Condition persists with or without PCV. Does have some blow by but not more than I'd expect on a fresh motor. Block decked .010 with intake milled .008. Intake gaskets are Victor Reinz. Haven't done compression or leak down test yet. Engine runs great besides smoking and very strong.
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  rmcomprandy on May 3rd 2017, 12:17 am

Be SURE all the intake rocker studs are well sealed in the head.

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on May 3rd 2017, 6:55 am

Ok, thanks for the reply. I will check the rocker studs. Do you recommend any thread sealant on the rockers studs, or just proper torque?
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  rmcomprandy on May 3rd 2017, 10:28 am

Fairlanes4ever wrote:Ok, thanks for the reply. I will check the rocker studs. Do you recommend any thread sealant on the rockers studs, or just proper torque?

The grey Ford Diesel sealant, the "Right Stuff" or Hylomar  works well if everything is clean; vacuum WILL draw oil through the threads if relying simply upon torque.

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  BBFTorino on May 4th 2017, 12:49 am

Pull the carb off and look down the ports to see if you can see any evidence of oil being sucked into the intake ports in the head right at the gasket mating surface.
If so, the bottoms of the gasket are not sealing to the heads and its pulling oil into the engine.

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on May 4th 2017, 7:32 am

BBFTorino wrote:Pull the carb off and look down the ports to see if you can see any evidence of oil being sucked into the intake ports in the head right at the gasket mating surface.
If so, the bottoms of the gasket are not sealing to the heads and its pulling oil into the engine.

Intake sucking oil was my first thought with oil on all plugs once PCV was eliminated. Tried two different intakes with Fel Pro and Victor gaskets. No change. When intake is pulled I can see oil pooled on top of the intake valves that are closed. Tried dye in the oil but it wasn't any help. Kind of aerosol sprayed through out the runner. Will check the rocker studs this weekend and report back. Thanks again for the help!
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  pmrphil on May 4th 2017, 8:52 am

Check the thickness of the gaskets (top compared to the bottom) after removing the intake, possibly when the block was decked it was not squared?
The used gaskets should show if the mating surfaces are parallel or not. Check both sides of the intake.

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on May 5th 2017, 7:02 pm

Quick update.

Pulled rocker studs on intake side. Did find oil on threads of 4 of 8. All with oil on them were on cylinders where the threads breached the runner. Applied sealant and retorqued studs. No change oil still on all 8 plugs. Will pull intake tomorrow and check gaskets again.
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  BBFTorino on May 6th 2017, 12:17 am

You may have to check the intake face angle to see if it matches the cylinder head angle. Sometimes, the intake is just a little off, and it allows the oil to get past the gasket.
Also, a leakdown test may be a good thing to do.

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  cool40 on May 6th 2017, 10:11 am

Leak down test yet? I'd suspect rings now. I had the intake issue before and made a plate to bolt on where the carb goes. Tap a hole for a steel valve core For a wheel and put a little air in the intake.you'll need all the rockers backed off and any holes plugged.
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  The Mad Porter on May 6th 2017, 10:14 pm

I would normally suspect poor ring seal / glazed cylinders. You do however mention oil on top of the intake valves. I would check the guide seals...



S
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on May 14th 2017, 8:24 am

Finally got back to this issue. Checked face angles all where within a degree. Pulled a couple springs to check guide seals both OK with good tight seal. Thoroughly cleaned all surfaces and reinstalled the intake with 1231-S3 gaskets with a light smear of grey Ford sealant around ports. Seemed like it sealed up. Drove around a little seemed fine. Tried to racing yesterday by the time I got to the track (6 miles away) it was smoking a little. Made a pass. Looked like an 1/8 mile burnout, but it wasn't. By the time I got home it was missing hard enough I thought I'd broken a valve spring. Oil on all 8 again, 3 fouled. Will do compression and leak down next but it's hard to believe all 8 cylinders wouldn't seal on a fresh build.
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  maverick on May 14th 2017, 12:10 pm

Try a simple cranking compression test. If the numbers are high, you may be looking at a problem with oil control rings and/or expanders. If faulty or incorrectly installed, they'll allow too much oil to the compression rings, making cranking compression numbers artificially high.

Like Scotty, I thought that oil pooled on top of the intake valve would indicate either gasket or guide/stem seal trouble. If you're SURE they're not your trouble, I'd check compression next.
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  pmrphil on May 14th 2017, 12:28 pm

Other than seals (ALL? Kind of unlikely) an intake leak, or a faulty PCV system, how else is there a way to pool oil on top of the intake valves? I can't see how rings can get oil back up past the valves to pool there.

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  IDT-572 on May 17th 2017, 4:48 pm

Make sure the guide seals are 11/32 and not 3/8th, Also when my engine lost ring seal on the dyno, oil was on top of the piston, on the valves, and intake runners were oily.

It should be seeing a poop ton of blow by under full load if its ring seal.
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  rmcomprandy on May 17th 2017, 9:07 pm

pmrphil wrote:Other than seals (ALL? Kind of unlikely) an intake leak, or a faulty PCV system, how else is there a way to pool oil on top of the intake valves? I can't see how rings can get oil back up past the valves to pool there.

I have seen many, MANY engines with piston parts broken in number 2 cylinder over in cylinder number 8 ... how did they get there...?

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  cool40 on May 17th 2017, 10:13 pm

We had a BBC with some piston rock issues. Rings wouldn't seat and put oil all through the intake up on the carb spacer! On a sniper 2 intake! Line2line coatings cured that problem so far....
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  pmrphil on May 18th 2017, 8:50 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
pmrphil wrote:Other than seals (ALL? Kind of unlikely) an intake leak, or a faulty PCV system, how else is there a way to pool oil on top of the intake valves? I can't see how rings can get oil back up past the valves to pool there.

I have seen many, MANY engines with piston parts broken in number 2 cylinder over in cylinder number 8 ... how did they get there...?

And I as well. You hang a valve open and stuff flies all over. What I haven't seen very often is oil POOLING up on the intake side of the valve without an intake/PCV/seal issue. I've seen quite a few with ring issues spreading oil everywhere, but not in quantity above the valve. I did re-read all the posts and see how the intake was sealed up and that the PCV was bypassed and the problem still persisted. I wonder if the ringset had too much end clearance on the oil rails? Timing could be a consideration. How much compression? Cam timing? Something has to be drawing the oil up somehow.

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  rmcomprandy on May 18th 2017, 9:50 am

pmrphil wrote: I've seen quite a few with ring issues spreading oil everywhere, but not in quantity above the valve.

After the oil is flying everywhere in the inlet system ...
just where do you think it settles after it sits, not running for a bit ...?
scratch

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Scott Foxwell on May 18th 2017, 10:30 am

2nd ring in upside down?

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on May 18th 2017, 8:44 pm

Had a little time to bang my head against this particular wall for awhile tonight. Started the car let it run long enough to start smoking good. Shut it down and immediately pulled carb to have a look. Every visible port (Victor intake) had a very large and distinct trail of oil from the mating surface/gasket into the port. 1231-S3 gaskets installed less than 2 weeks ago. Plan on talking to my machinist tomorrow to discuss where to go from here. Maybe mill this intake more?
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  83Capri on May 18th 2017, 11:48 pm

do you have access to a smoke machine? back off the rockers and seal the carb plate. watch for smoke in the crankcase, or use a leak down tester
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  supervel45 on May 19th 2017, 12:19 am

Fairlanes4ever wrote:Finally got back to this issue. Checked face angles all where within a degree. Pulled a couple springs to check guide seals both OK with good tight seal. Thoroughly cleaned all surfaces and reinstalled the intake with 1231-S3 gaskets with a light smear of grey Ford sealant around ports. Seemed like it sealed up. Drove around a little seemed fine. Tried to racing yesterday by the time I got to the track (6 miles away) it was smoking a little. Made a pass. Looked like an 1/8 mile burnout, but it wasn't. By the time I got home it was missing hard enough I thought I'd broken a valve spring. Oil on all 8 again, 3 fouled. Will do compression and leak down next but it's hard to believe all 8 cylinders wouldn't seal on a fresh build.

He glued the intake. My money is on the rings. File to fit? Gap either way checked?

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  pmrphil on May 19th 2017, 8:25 am

Fairlanes4ever wrote:Had a little time to bang my head against this particular wall for awhile tonight. Started the car let it run long enough to start smoking good. Shut it down and immediately pulled carb to have a look. Every visible port (Victor intake) had a very large and distinct trail of oil from the mating surface/gasket into the port. 1231-S3 gaskets installed less than 2 weeks ago. Plan on talking to my machinist tomorrow to discuss where to go from here. Maybe mill this intake more?

Pull the intake, check the gaskets for any signs of leakage, measure the thickness of the gaskets top and bottom. Then clean the surfaces, and lay the intake in place without gaskets. See how much room you have everywhere, top and bottom of the mating surfaces, and make sure you would have enough clearance at the ends (china wall) so the gaskets would be able to compress properly.

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  ROAD RAGE on May 19th 2017, 12:42 pm

[quote="pmrphil"][quote="Fairlanes4ever"]Had a little time to bang my head against this particular wall for awhile tonight. Started the car let it run long enough to start smoking good. Shut it down and immediately pulled carb to have a look. Every visible port (Victor intake) had a very large and distinct trail of oil from the mating surface/gasket into the port. 1231-S3 gaskets installed less than 2 weeks ago. Plan on talking to my machinist tomorrow to discuss where to go from here. Maybe mill this intake more? [/quote]

Pull the intake, check the gaskets for any signs of leakage, measure the thickness of the gaskets top and bottom. Then clean the surfaces, and lay the intake in place without gaskets. See how much room you have everywhere, top and bottom of the mating surfaces, and make sure you would have enough clearance at the ends (china wall) so the gaskets would be able to compress properly.[/quote]

This is why I like RTV on the china wall...........
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

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