Vacuum Pumps and BBFs

Saw this thread on YB, and have never heard about it on this or the other BBF forum. Any info on it? Just wondering.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=220149

I haven't either

We've run a vacuum pump on the old A headed 598 with an external Moroso wet sump pump and the current 698 with a dry sump set up with no problems at all, can't say about the internal pumps.

Would like to hear alot of input on this subject, because I was going to buy a new vacumn pump this week

Rick,

You've been to the BB Ford Tech Seminars, and I know Jon K. has been a quest speaker at all four of them. At one of them he spoke at pretty good length about the vacuum pumps, I just can't remember which one. Anyway, playback your DVDs and I would go with what he's said. It seems that he's recommended no more than 8-10" on our wet sump engines. The problem is, those that have too much vacuum, dry out the wrist pins.

The engine that we finished dynoing today was a P-51 headed 557 and it made 939 Hp/784 Tq ,,,,(pretty much a twin to Randy Moore's engine), but like Randy's deal, we used a Kaase wet sump oil pump, Lem Evans designed alum. oil pan, and just the usual Moroso header evacuation deal. No vacuum pump of any kind.

Charlie

I'm pretty sure I heard him say that on a wet sump he preferred 12" and 15 at the Max. Charlie, the reason I was going w/pump this go around was the engine in the car now has little oil leaks , maybe because the rings are not sealed up good yet, I don't know. But anyway ,thats my reasoning for a vac. pump. I've never had issues w/leaks before this pia build. I HATE LEAKS

on the engines i do for most i don't go over 10hg, this is because they don't want to,or can't aford to take there stuff apart every 20 runs, it all about over running the oilpump, to much suction and it will fight the oil pump,and pull too much oil from the air and thus not having enough oil flying(splashing) around there wont be enough for pins,or cly walls

One of them electric pumps will pull 4"-5", enough to keep the leaks away and the moisture out.

richter69 wrote:One of them electric pumps will pull 4"-5", enough to keep the leaks away and the moisture out.

thats what I'm using, hope it will pull enough to keep it from bleeding with nitrous.

,,,,(pretty much a twin to Randy Moore's engine), but like Randy's deal, we used a Kaase wet sump oil pump,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Twins that have a different...
1] Bore
2] stroke
3] Block
4] Cam
5] Comp. ratio
6] carb
Other than that they are twins .

Kaase said you shouldn't pull more than 8" on a wet sump BBF and only use 10" at absolute max. Never, ever go more than 10"

Bret

[quote="bbf-falcon"]I'm pretty sure I heard him say that on a wet sump he preferred 12" and 15 at the Max. Charlie, the reason I was going w/pump this go around was the engine in the car now has little oil leaks , maybe because the rings are not sealed up good yet, I don't know. But anyway ,thats my reasoning for a vac. pump. I've never had issues w/leaks before this pia build. I HATE LEAKS [/quo


Rick, you'll be o.k. with a smog pump.

Good intel...had never heard this mentioned previously, so glad I asked.

I plan on running a Peterson WideVac (external pump with a vacuum pump built in - all in one deal) but would likely run a breather for the street, or something like that. But this is good to know none-the-less.

I have been running a elec for 8yrs now, and make 250+ passes a year never seen a issue. Only pulls 4 max. and no leaks

I might just go w/elec. deal. Feel safer that way.

c.evans wrote:Rick,


The engine that we finished dynoing today was a P-51 headed 557 and it made 939 Hp/784 Tq ,,,,(pretty much a twin to Randy Moore's engine), but like Randy's deal, we used a Kaase wet sump oil pump, Lem Evans designed alum. oil pan, and just the usual Moroso header evacuation deal. No vacuum pump of any kind.

Charlie

IMO, for what it's worth, the vacuum pump deal seems to be the next "got to have" item hanging on the front of an engine! A vacuum pump that applies vacuum to the crankcase is only ONE (1) part of the equation! If I have listened in class, other items are intended to be applied in conjunction with a vacuum pump which produces vacuum in the crankcase. As with most engine construction I know of, it's a group of items, changes or modifications that offer improvement (or failure), not ONE (1)!

As Uncle Charlie wrote, over 900 horsepower and near 800' lbs. of torque is a damn stout conclusion, relative to the combination! Did he mention NO vacuum pump?

OK, let me have it!
Dave.

A vacumn pump #1 doesn't apply vacumn to a engine,it sucks pressure out. #2 it is designed to pull the low tension rings to the cylinder wall for more seal and CAN make HP,and #3 i'm not interested in one because it's the next toy on the market. I have other issues for one.

bbf-falcon wrote:A vacumn pump #1 doesn't apply vacumn to a engine,it sucks it out. #2 it is designed to pull the low tension rings to the cylinder wall for more seal and CAN make HP,and #3 i'm not interested in one because it's the next toy on the market. I have other issues for one.

Seems like sucking out vacuum would be like a double negative, you suck out the air to create a vacuuum.................applied seems to be the correct terminology.

And unless one has a ring package that requires it or needs to evacuate moisture I see no real need for one.

Some vacuum would be better than some pressure IMO.

I have run a vacuum pump the past couple of years with no problems (and with no leaks) on my 514. One of the Pro Mod guys told me not to run over 10’ max and he would stay around 7” (or I would run into issues). So I never run but 7 and it has worked for me fine. I am now in the process of building a 598 Kaase engine and Roger said they were not fans of vacuum pumps but I should be ok around 7”. I know those guys know a ton more than me but I will keep the pump and run it at 7 or under unless you guys talk me out of it with some good facts. Just my two cents.

Lem Evans wrote:,,,,(pretty much a twin to Randy Moore's engine), but like Randy's deal, we used a Kaase wet sump oil pump,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Twins that have a different...
1] Bore
2] stroke
3] Block
4] Cam
5] Comp. ratio
6] carb
Other than that they are twins .

[quote="richter69"]

bbf-falcon wrote:A vacumn pump #1 doesn't apply vacumn to a engine,it sucks it out. #2 it is designed to pull the low tension rings to the cylinder wall for more seal and CAN make HP,and #3 i'm not interested in one because it's the next toy on the market. I have other issues for one.

Seems like sucking out vacuum would be like a double negative, you suck out the air to create a vacuuum.................applied seems to be the correct terminology.

And unless one has a ring package that requires it or needs to evacuate moisture I see no real need for one.

Some vacuum would be better than some pressure IMO.[/quote

I meant to say it sucks pressure instead of vacumn.

We like running it to help dry the air in the crankcase. We run ice water through the heads and Q16 fuel so without the pump we have seen a lot of condensation. The vacuum pump helps this situation. We don't run it for any power increase. That's what the turbo is for.

I thought about running a electric one just to help get the alky out of the oil dam ederle hat
puts some alky in the pan .And yes its got the right pill it will run within a couple hundreths all day.
Thanks for the info guys

I've run the Moroso 4 vein for 4 years now @ 20 inchs of vacum max. I run a 3 stage dry sump pump and have 0 problems with the bearings after 80-100 passes. Just my experience.

presently running one now pulls about 8". On a nitrous motor its absolutely a necessity to have the plugs clean of oil or you will have detonation problems. With my loose end gaps for nitrous i get a healthy amount of blow by and oil leaks without it. We will see what the longterm affects of it are. Im making my first nitrous pass this weekend and also first with the vacuum pump. This is good info thanks guys.