IDT Premier or Ultra Oiling problems?

Do the lifters have a small notch cut in them from the oil band to the small oil hole? I know some push rod manufacturers recomend this. I use this mod and have plenty of oil up top with the same block and lifters bushed no restrictor in the front.

They did not have that groove originally, but they did when it went back together the last time. It seems to be getting plenty of oil up there, but it seemed odd to me that it did not flow unless the valves were opening. So that got me wondering is the pushrod tip and jesel seat cup getting oiled, or is it going to chew a pushrod again?

this happens when certain cams are used,and hole is too far away to receve presser all the time,if bushings are used sometimes even those wind up having the oil hole drilled a little too far away from lifter oil hole,THUS LIFTER MUST BE UP to receve oil flow

That is what I think is happening. I put the hole back in the same place as the original set of bushings. I opened it up from .040 to .120 as recommended by the lifter manufacturer. I get good oil flow up top when the valve starts to open, but when it is closed it does not flow. The cam I am running is .545" intake lift @ cam & .535" exh. lift @ cam w/ 60mm bearing journal using 1.8 rockers giving me .981" intake & .963 exh lift.

LETHAL_DOSE wrote:

Do the lifters have a small notch cut in them from the oil band to the small oil hole? I know some push rod manufacturers recomend this. I use this mod and have plenty of oil up top with the same block and lifters bushed no restrictor in the front.

They did not have that groove originally, but they did when it went back together the last time. It seems to be getting plenty of oil up there, but it seemed odd to me that it did not flow unless the valves were opening. So that got me wondering is the pushrod tip and jesel seat cup getting oiled, or is it going to chew a pushrod again?

this happens when certain cams are used,and hole is too far away to receve presser all the time,if bushings are used sometimes even those wind up having the oil hole drilled a little too far away from lifter oil hole,THUS LIFTER MUST BE UP to receve oil flow

That is what I think is happening. I put the hole back in the same place as the original set of bushings. I opened it up from .040 to .120 as recommended by the lifter manufacturer. I get good oil flow up top when the valve starts to open, but when it is closed it does not flow. The cam I am running is .545" intake lift @ cam & .535" exh. lift @ cam w/ 60mm bearing journal using 1.8 rockers giving me .981" intake & .963 exh lift.

now thats a cam!

I would like to clarify a few points on this string. I have a good inside knowledge of Engine Systems in Tucker GA. I have been a customer for over 12 years, and have entrusted all of my machine work to Ted Fischer. Ted has worked with me on the development programs for both my 514 and 605 engines, both equipped with Eliminator blocks. Since my racing operation depends on Engine Systems for the use of their 3-axis CNC mill, dyno and entire shop, I decided to assist Ted this year and have been machining, assembling and dyno testing BBF engines for customers at their Tucker, GA facility.
The only "oiling system modifications" used on Engine Systems builds are in line with the recommendations from Eliminator Products. In many cases, the lifter bores are bushed, depending on the application. The use of oil restrictors and their size is dictated by each specific application also. The normal block preparation includes inspection of all passages and occasionally attention is required to correct minor production errors. Eliminator makes fine products, but the builder still must closely check to make sure the main oil passages intersect smoothly and have no problems. This is just part of normal race engine building.
So...no worries...Engine Systems is still a strong BBF engine builder in the South. They built their first offset ground 514 stroker back in 1973 and have never stopped in their dedication to the BBF racer.
Yes....they also build and dyno Chevys...Mopars...Flatheads...and whatever comes in the door. In today's economy you cannot choose your customers.
You can always call me with any questions at 678-458-2033.
Thank you,
Keith Fulp
www.KeithFulpMotorsports.com
www.enginesystems.com

I have used Ted on my engine builds and he's A 1. Ted did tell me the earlier elminator blocks did have an issue with one of the oil galley's not drilled far enough I can't remember which one but this could be one of the modifications needed on on earlier block.

This was an old post that I seen and was just trying to claify some information. Engine Systems is a very good company, and if closer to me would be the one I would use. I have bought 2 sets of Blue Thunder heads off them, and they have done some work for me. I don't know if they still do, but they used to put a woodruff key in the timing gear instead of double pinning the cam, I liked that feature They were dead on on everything I had them do for me and was very satisfied. Engine Systems did not do anything on this engine, and I was not bad mouthing them.

I bought this engine assembled, everything in it was brand new. This was not a problem right away, but after it was apart and back together a couple times. I reused the plugs(which I should not have) that were in the engine, I think each time the plug screwed in it went a little further(not much b/c they are flush type plugs), thus blocking off part of the gallery. If the plug had indeed had the .120-.150 machined off like in the instructions, this would never have become an issue. The original builder just ground on it a little with a grinder & and took off very little material. Was it the original engine builders fault; NO it is mine because I "assumed" he did it correctly in the beginning. After all it worked for a couple of years. Luckily I caught it before a catastrophic failure, only busted a couple valve tips. I turn this engine pretty hard normally 83-8800 rpms, so it could have gotten ugly real quick.

I hope you or Engine Systems did not take offense, I was not pointing fingers or blaming anyone. Just wanting to let people know 1 more thing to look at when doing an engine build. I appreciate all that they & people like you have done for the BBF. When I started pulling in this class, there were about 10-12 Fords running, now there are 3(me being 1), 1 mopar, and 12-13 chevys. It seems like every year someone else is changing to a chevy. Prime example, sold my brothers tractor to a guy who likes chevy, he could not make the ford run like it did when I had it. Blew it up last year and built a chevy this past winter.

Thanks

Mike

Lethal Dose , you did blame someone ... yourself , and thats rare . glad you got the problem solved

DanH wrote:Lethal Dose , you did blame someone ... yourself , and thats rare . glad you got the problem solved

x2 and thanks for the info.

Yeah...all of this information will surely help one of us solve a problem, or even better prevent one!
Mike....no offense...at all...
That is the great thing about this forum with several fine engine builders and many dedicated racers all working together to make our engines run better and find ways to save money and keep racing!
Thanks,
Keith

Wheelie58 wrote:Yeah...all of this information will surely help one of us solve a problem, or even better prevent one!
Mike....no offense...at all...
That is the great thing about this forum with several fine engine builders and many dedicated racers all working together to make our engines run better and find ways to save money and keep racing!
Thanks,
Keith

x2 On the great info.

I have a 565 with one of the 1st IDT Premier blocks in the south built by Engine Systems. 4 years and not a burp of any kind. They are one of the best around in my opinion.

Well really I never perceived this as being any kind of IDT block problem. IMO it is a rocker arm oiling problem and the reason I gave the answer I did, about the pushrod to rocker cup interface angle is because of what Jesel says in their Tech Tips and I quote;

" We set our aluminum systems with a LOW pivot point geometry which results in the majority of the sweep pattern occuring while spring pressures are at their lower range.............................."

I understand their concept, and if it is a "low pivot geometry" as intended, then I suspect that the rocker arm cup is closing off the oil flow until such time as that interface angle becomes more of a 90* situation and then the oil can flow through the rocker arms and on to the valve tips,,,,,,,,which is what he was breaking, and/or damaging.

I will add, that if the pushrods are too short, then the cam lobe is literally trying to lift the rocker arms off the head,,, when initially opening the valve,,,thus requiring more torque to turn the engine over.


Hope this helps,

Charlie