Questions on an '85 460

Hey all, been awhile.

Working on an '85 460 from an E350 motorhome. I bought this a few years ago, got around to pulling it last August, and this past weekend got it on a stand. (Forgive my picture whore-ness).



Questions so far:

I'm guessing someone has been in this engine before, for three reasons..

1. Head gaskets were the Felpro 1018 gasket, with the orange printoseal rings. Did Ford use these for OEM installs?

2. In the lifter valley, there are, well, numbers painted.



Any idea what these mean?

3. The rod caps are all stamped with numbers to match them to a piston rod. I don't recall seeing this on a factory engine.. Are they normally there?

1. Head gaskets are aftermarket I think.
2. Painted #s are from the factory.
3. All of my Ford engines have the rods numbered from the factory.
JMO.

Ford did use Felpro to make their gaskets, could be factory.

dfree383 wrote:Ford did use Felpro to make their gaskets, could be factory.

Thanks for the correction. Just haven't seen any on my engines. About when would this have started? Most of my stuff was older than the '85 engine we are talking about..

Thanks guys. This is just a 'swap a good top end onto a good bottom end' project (I feel the eye rolls, it's ok, really. ) using some D3 heads that have larger-than-stock valves, a used Comp Cams 256 Extreme 4x4 cam, and the stock cast iron intake with a trans-dapt adapter. I've driven the package for years in my F100, and for the effort into the block, I was pleased with the results. I drove it daily, it towed well enough, spun tires freely, and managed 10-11 MPG with a pig rich tune on an Edelbrock 800.

Lesson learned. This is going into the Gray 77 Cougar I have, along with a 3.00:1 9", in order to be able to sell it, and have it mobile. Judging by how the truck felt with this combo, it should be fine for daily driving with a 600 cfm carb (gas prices aside).


Also... What do the painted numbers mean in the lifter valley area?

has something to do with machine work or sizes on parts for the application.

As an aside, I'll be testing the strength of this engine stand.





Friend used it with a dressed 454 BBC, so we'll see how this holds up.

I was worried that you smoked the motor in the '77!!
With a little google psquare stalking I found this....
http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148612

That blows to go through all that work for an exhaust leak......but I've been there. Sometimes there isn't much else you can do.....

You're gonna try sell it? Makes sense, the '78 must be close to road ready?
You gonna bother working the heads? Or is this just a slam it together to get it rolling thing? Would be interesting to see if you noticed a big difference with home ported heads and torque style motor.... I've got 7 hours a head to roll the short turn radius, rework the thermactor bump and clean up the sharp edges into he chamber. Way too much work for something just to sell!
On the other hand, a 30 degree back cut on my intake valves was only 16 bucks at my local machine shop....
I love dirt cheap builds, keep it up!

andymarkv wrote:I was worried that you smoked the motor in the '77!!
With a little google psquare stalking I found this....
http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148612

That blows to go through all that work for an exhaust leak......but I've been there. Sometimes there isn't much else you can do.....

You're gonna try sell it? Makes sense, the '78 must be close to road ready?
You gonna bother working the heads? Or is this just a slam it together to get it rolling thing? Would be interesting to see if you noticed a big difference with home ported heads and torque style motor.... I've got 7 hours a head to roll the short turn radius, rework the thermactor bump and clean up the sharp edges into he chamber. Way too much work for something just to sell!
On the other hand, a 30 degree back cut on my intake valves was only 16 bucks at my local machine shop....
I love dirt cheap builds, keep it up!

No no no .. The 77 Cougar setup runs great. So good, it's going in my F100.

The block on the stand, from the E350, had the broken exhaust studs.

The heads going on the E350 block have larger valves, but that's about all. I was quite happy with the setup when it was in the F100, as a daily, so I'm not expecting any performance surprises.

I DID notice that the OEM timing chain in the E350 block with 60K+ miles, has less stretch than the eBay special timing chain currently in the F100 block, that has 10K miles. Lesson learned.

Transmission is just getting a reseal (front pump/output shaft, shift seals/filter - gasket). Whenever I attempt transmission modifications, they don't shift right afterwards.

Whoops! I got that inside out and backwards....
Is the '77's motor staying intact while getting swapped into the truck?

If its coming apart...are you thinking about fully porting the heads?
Ford141 did on his 2WD green truck with stock bottomend/small cam/headers and is REALLY impressed with the results.

I wonder if MPG's can improve with better carb tuning..... Or I should say, I wonder HOW MUCH MPG's can improve with better carb tuning.
I've always been a "gotta pay to play" kind of guy....but $4/gal premium fuel is starting to take a lot of the fun out of my toys....especially at 10mpg....

For the trans.... Sounds like you need a black stripe modulator and a complete Broader valvebody. Bolt it in and done. Everyone likes a second gear chirp!

andymarkv wrote:Whoops! I got that inside out and backwards....
Is the '77's motor staying intact while getting swapped into the truck?

Yes, the guy that built it used C9 heads and had hardened seats installed. It's got 70K miles on it, doesn't use any oil, and runs excellent. It has a Stealth intake (?) but I have a Performer on the shelf I'm tempted to swap on.. (cam installed is a Crane 262? I have it listed elsewhere here if you want to do more Psquare searching, ha.)

andymarkv wrote:
I wonder if MPG's can improve with better carb tuning..... Or I should say, I wonder HOW MUCH MPG's can improve with better carb tuning.
I've always been a "gotta pay to play" kind of guy....but $4/gal premium fuel is starting to take a lot of the fun out of my toys....especially at 10mpg....

It went up one or two when we had the truck tuned.. My father swore up and down he got 14 MPG once with a 750 Edelbrock. When I bought it in 2006 from the guy my father sold it to in 2002, he changed the carb (same type) but didn't think to change anything else... I averaged 11.. with effort. . I plan to use a 600 in the car, and go from there.

andymarkv wrote:
For the trans.... Sounds like you need a black stripe modulator and a complete Broader valvebody. Bolt it in and done. Everyone likes a second gear chirp!

I hadn't even thought of a valvebody from him. I figure I'll try what I have now and go from there. Can't shift any worse than the Town Car transmission that was in the truck..

Coming along..

Here's what's in it so far, and what will be going in it.

D3 Heads that had a 3 angle valve job on them and new guides installed approx 20K miles ago.
Comp x4256h cam (256/268 duration and .487/.493 lift)
Straight up timing gear set, Cloyes double roller
OEM 4bbl Intake with a Trans Dapt 4bbl adapter
Edelbrock 600
HV oil pump
Summit fuel pump (I forget how many GPH)

Cam and heads were in the 460 I had in my F100, which now sits engineless
600cfm carb came from a friend.. Another friend test ran it on his Nova for me.
Transdapt adapter and timing chain are new.
HV oil pump and fuel pump come from the engine already in the Cougar.

Like I said, tried to keep this low budget and workable.

The C6 got new seals front and rear along with a new filter/pan gasket. I backed off the intermediate band adjustment several turns and set that as well.

This is either going to really well, or really poorly.

psquare75 wrote:

Looking good.

It took me a few seconds but I couldn't figure out why that driver's side valve cover looked funny.
Then I realized it was upside down,,,, LOL

Nice! When is the double swap going to take place?
I'd think you'd be itching to get the truck running again!
Looks like you have managed to keept the bucks in this motor to a minimum!
Always good when you have a stash of spare parts kicking around.....

Any progress on the white car? That thing must be ready to roll for this summer!
Maybe it should get the 3.00's, that stroker motor must have more than enough torque to turn them!

Did you ever get the exhaust to how you wanted it? I think it needs a return trip to the dyno....

andymarkv wrote:Nice! When is the double swap going to take place?
I'd think you'd be itching to get the truck running again!

Cougar get's swapped Memorial day weekend. I want 4 days off in a row to tackle this (detailing engine bay, etc). The problem is either my daily driver or the GF's fails, so I keep having to, well, drive it.

andymarkv wrote:
Looks like you have managed to keept the bucks in this motor to a minimum!
Always good when you have a stash of spare parts kicking around.....

Biggest single purchase so far was the timing chain..

andymarkv wrote:
Any progress on the white car? That thing must be ready to roll for this summer!
Maybe it should get the 3.00's, that stroker motor must have more than enough torque to turn them!

Did you ever get the exhaust to how you wanted it? I think it needs a return trip to the dyno....

Almost. Life keeps getting in the way, I need my truck together for house related things. I'd really like to do an ovedrive, but the funds just don't allow for it. I may actually take the exhaust from the gray Cougar and use most of it, as I like how it sounds, with 3" catco cats and all , just using the large case magnaflows I purchased last year. I was never into loud loud cars, but I know most people are, so it'd be a win win for myself, and the buyer of the car.

Well, it runs!

My question now, is break in oil. I played it safe and did a re break-in cycle. Used Brad Penn 30wt Break In oil and ZDDPlus additive. When do I change this oil out?
I've seen two schools of thought regarding a 100% street car engine. Immediately after the 20 minute of 2-2500 RPM, or do I put 100 miles on the car first?

Did you use some kind of cam lube when you reran the cam?
When I run in a new cam I always change the oil immediately after finishing the break in.

But this cam was used and you reused the lifters? If there are no new parts, I'd consider running the oil for a while. Although, since the motor was apart....you might want to change the oil just to clean out anything that got in there while it was open.

But man its getting harder to just dump oil like I used to.... 10/30 VR1 is almost 6 bucks a quart.... but I'd feel dumb smoking the motor over something relatively cheap.

Glad to hear its running!!! Should feel good after all of this work!!!

I got it running last week.



Some carb issues I need to deal with (idle mix screws will not stall the engine if turned all the way in, pig rich choke, etc), but the engine itself AND the transmission seems ok. No leaks or odd noises.

What a difference between the stout drivetrain that was in here previously, and this stock-ish setup. I'll get my wideband on it this week and do some carb work.

Runs and drives, and shifts great. Stuck my wideband on the car. Originally it was puking black smoke out the pipes, literally. Idle mix screws were doing nothing. Cruised kinda rough. Was cursing the Edelbrock carb. Removed the metering rods that control fuel flow. They were bent! Meaning they were not seating, and fuel was flowing at max flow, all the time. Turns out this happens if someone disassembles the carb and reassembles in the wrong order (wasn't me!). Bent the rods back straight.

Warm idle in drive ~ 13.5:1 - 14:1
Cruise ~ mid 13:1
WOT dips to 11 then levels out around 12ish

Good enough for out of the box right?. Still can't *drive it* as I need a throttle bracket that is on backorder.. Right now the throttle cable is held down with one bolt and a monster sized spring.

As for performance, it's lazy with the stock transmission, low compression, and 2.41:1 gears. As a DD it'd be fine. The 3.00:1 posi I have to install should help.

Nice!! Are you gonna lean out the WOT a little, or is it close enough for what it is?
I've done the same thing....and ALMOST bent the metering rods until I realized something was wrong...

Nice on the Sanford and Son throttle bracket!! Gots to keep things running and moving!
I'm pretty interested to hear what you think after the 3.00 gears! Although the posi might kill what little wheel spin you have now..... But with the current price of tires....that might not be a bad thing!

3.00's with our cammed stock 460 felt really good and still cruised nice with 80mph right at 3000rpm.
Seemed to make little difference in MPG whether we were going 80 or 60. And we checked it for 3000 miles on our first Power Tour......

andymarkv wrote:Nice!! Are you gonna lean out the WOT a little, or is it close enough for what it is?
I've done the same thing....and ALMOST bent the metering rods until I realized something was wrong...

I was REALLY surprised when I tugged on them........ and they didn't unseat!

andymarkv wrote:
Nice on the Sanford and Son throttle bracket!! Gots to keep things running and moving!
I'm pretty interested to hear what you think after the 3.00 gears! Although the posi might kill what little wheel spin you have now..... But with the current price of tires....that might not be a bad thing!
3.00's with our cammed stock 460 felt really good and still cruised nice with 80mph right at 3000rpm.
Seemed to make little difference in MPG whether we were going 80 or 60. And we checked it for 3000 miles on our first Power Tour......

Don't forget, I have Mastercraft tires (off brand Cooper white letters). The 2.41:1 open leg will still fry it a little, if needed. Best I ever had for MPG with the old/built setup was 13.5, driving a 40-50 MPH route with a few stops. I felt that maybe a 3.00 would not hurt, and maybe HELP both accel AND MPG. Once I get the bracket I'll take it to work, I don't want to go too far with it now, as the spring is overkill and I REALLY need to push the pedal to open the throttle, but better than it getting stuck wide open.

No leaks under the car either! But I do notice the "ford" power steering pump is a little lazier in the power assist, vs the Saginaw pump. I can def. feel a difference.

Running and driving, now has around 60 miles on it. I'd have been done sooner if I didn't clean up the engine bay some. Definitely lazier, I think the 3.00:1 swap will perk it back up. Idles nicely at ~700 RPM in gear. Have one spot of oil that sometimes appears on the ground overnight, around the driver's front corner of the engine. I have a wideband on it, car cruises around 13-13.5:1, WOT dips into the 10s for a second. I'll buy a rod kit (E-brock) later this month. Trans shifts excellent. First time I have done an intermediate band adjustment (and loosened the band too much at first. oops). After adding some initial timing, it cruises in 80 degree weather around 175 deg and stays there.

Just need a gear swap (have), distributor ignition back to OEM (have), and hook up the a/c (parts are on the way).

So far, as of this writing, success!

This is what it looked like, long ago.