Sprag or spragless converter?

So after having my converter loosened and swapping gears and my car still leaving and running like a turd, i've come to the conclusion that this converter is total junk and needs to go. Last friday at US60 the car was still running slow and as the night went on it just kept getting slower and slower. When I'd shift into high gear the tach would jump from 6500 up to 7200 and never really felt locked in. At first I thought the car was spinning but after taking a look at the time slips, it seems more like the converter never really locked up.

So this week I'm gonna do some calling around and order a new converter. I've got about 4 different builders I'm gonna consider and call. My question really is regarding sprags. I've broken a sprag about two years ago and this one doesn't act like that one did but it does act f'd up. Anybody got any real world experience with a spragless vs a sprag converter. Some say it will slow down and others don't. I just wanna make an intelligent and informed decision as this is a ton of money to not get right the first time. Thanks, Brian.

I've never broken a sprag, I use UCC exclusively.............that said sprag breakage is in most cases not the sprag's fault. In a 1/8th mile application you may not see a difference wither way..or it would be minimal IMO.

Brian,
Not all spragless conversions are created equal.
Please call Ray Huffman at BTE (800-626-1828) and he can explain in detail.
BTE has a spragless hub design allowing fluid to behave differently in the second half of the track, compared to a normal solid sprag replacement hub. Both of my converters were changed to this configuration and I can enjoy the durability of spragless with no heat problems (from the converter) and no MPH loss. I may have even picked up a smidgen of MPH....
Depending on the class (WFO, 9.50. 10.0 S/G or S/ST) I can have my old boat weighing as much as 3800.
I have worked with Ray and the BTE guys to come up with a good 10" spragless configuration that works well.
Dan Hobbs has a customer with a 598 in a black pickup that had them build one like mine...for his ride.. and was very happy with the results.
I am sure that thee are other great spragless converter builders out there too. It is a very competitive market.
Done correctly, you will like the spragless deal.
Keith

i've ran both in 1/8 only and did'nt see any change at all.sounds like you have a problem for sure.what trans you runnen?

richter69 wrote:I've never broken a sprag, I use UCC exclusively.............that said sprag breakage is in most cases not the sprag's fault. In a 1/8th mile application you may not see a difference wither way..or it would be minimal IMO.

Very true....my history of sprag failures have been due to:
* Age and wear on the sprag...it was beat on for 3 or 4 seasons.
* Tire shake....ugly breakage.
* Driver abuse...coming out of the water, and using too much throttle as the tires go dry.
I still like taking it out of the equation.
Keith

cool40 wrote:i've ran both in 1/8 only and did'nt see any change at all.sounds like you have a problem for sure.what trans you runnen?

Its a glide. After having the stall loosened I figured everything would be good, it's not. This thing should run in the 5's easy and the best it's ran with the new heads cam and intake is 6.21 @112. My old doves ran 6.20, needless to say I'm pissed.

Sounds like spragless may be the way to go, just need to sit down and actually make a decision as to who's gonna build it.

Another thought...
Many converter builders are used to the Chevy guys that boast 900 HP but only really have 750 or so. They get accustomed to building converters for these deals, and when a BBF guy roll in with gobs of torque and real horsepower, they tend to build a converter that is way way too loose.
That is how I eventually went to a 10" Top Sportsman type converter....to get it tight enough. The 605 would blow through an 8 or 9 inch when presented with the weight of my boat. I was trying to get the stall to 5200-5400. Nine inchers were coming in at close to 5900.
Hopefully, these ramblings will help your decision process.
Keith

For what it's worth, I run a 9" Spragless from PTC. 5500 WFO on the brake, exactly where it needs to be.

Glide with a 1.76 at 3200# and 31" tires and 4.30 gear.

What heads are you using now?
Weight?
Gear?
Tire Size:

mph seem a bit low but not sure until I get answers to the above questions.

FYI I'm running 117-118mph and 5.88 to 6.0-ish
9.20's to 9.30's in the 1/4 N/A

I'd like to run at US60 sometime soon...

Put it on the trans brake and no chip in the box and see where it goes..............

Wheelie58 wrote:Another thought...
Many converter builders are used to the Chevy guys that boast 900 HP but only really have 750 or so. They get accustomed to building converters for these deals, and when a BBF guy roll in with gobs of torque and real horsepower, they tend to build a converter that is way way too loose.
That is how I eventually went to a 10" Top Sportsman type converter....to get it tight enough. The 605 would blow through an 8 or 9 inch when presented with the weight of my boat. I was trying to get the stall to 5200-5400. Nine inchers were coming in at close to 5900.
Hopefully, these ramblings will help your decision process.
Keith

This is what happened to me, Quote from converter guy : (I have 565 Chevy's that can't blow through this converter, your trans must be slipping) My response (this ain't no Chevy) My engine was making more torque than a 565 chevy making the same HP, and mine was making the torque 1000 rpm lower and holding that torque past the Chevy's torque peak.

P.S. The heads you have will do the exact thing mine did................... Like I said before put it on the brake, it sounds like it blowing through the converter on the shift because of the extra load on the converter with the car in a higher gear and in the upper rpm range.

D. Sea wrote:For what it's worth, I run a 9" Spragless from PTC. 5500 WFO on the brake, exactly where it needs to be.

Glide with a 1.76 at 3200# and 31" tires and 4.30 gear.

What heads are you using now?
Weight?
Gear?
Tire Size:

mph seem a bit low but not sure until I get answers to the above questions.

FYI I'm running 117-118mph and 5.88 to 6.0-ish
9.20's to 9.30's in the 1/4 N/A

I'd like to run at US60 sometime soon...

Heads are trick flows done over by Charlie. These heads were on Blakes car when it ran 5.60's, I'm giving up some cubes to him but it should run better than it does. Gear is 4.56, car weighs 2900 with me in it and I run a 29x12 tire. 60 foots have been terribly inconsistent, last Friday it went anywhere from a 1.40 to a 1.33 and that's with the car running within .02 at the finish. As the night went on the 60's stayed around 1.38 but the car got slower and slower at the stripe.

IDT-572 wrote:Put it on the trans brake and no chip in the box and see where it goes..............

When I first got it back from being loosened it would go 5400 wide open. I didn't recheck it before I started tearing it back apart. I'm certain this converter is the problem, but I'm going to have the tranny freshened up since it's got about 350 passes on it.

IDT-572 wrote:Put it on the trans brake and no chip in the box and see where it goes..............

Make sure to put the rear up on jackstads when you do this. There have been some bad incidents from checking transbrakes and stalls with the car on the ground and the brake turning loose unexpectedly!

BigDave65 wrote:

IDT-572 wrote:Put it on the trans brake and no chip in the box and see where it goes..............

Make sure to put the rear up on jackstads when you do this. There have been some bad incidents from checking transbrakes and stalls with the car on the ground and the brake turning loose unexpectedly!

thats a big 10-4

The last time i checked mine with a 8" convertor..it blew through it.the shift was at 6600 and it shifted...then the Tbrake long longer works in high gear. It was pointed out the door and nothing was in front of it....Thank Goodness..It's on stands from now on

I got the tranny out and pulled the pan. Looks like an overhaul was a good call. Lots of friction mud and some brass chunks. Oh, and three very dead flies Also the input shaft is twisted on the end and it will not pull out. Off to the tranny guy monday. It's only money....right?

of all the things I spend money on the hotrod stuff bothers me the least in doing so..........

richter69 wrote:of all the things I spend money on the hotrod stuff bothers me the least in doing so..........

Me too...wish my wife felt the same way!

Race Ready Fabrications wrote:

richter69 wrote:of all the things I spend money on the hotrod stuff bothers me the least in doing so..........

Me too...wish my wife felt the same way!

that easy,dont tell her.

cool40 wrote:

Race Ready Fabrications wrote:

richter69 wrote:of all the things I spend money on the hotrod stuff bothers me the least in doing so..........

Me too...wish my wife felt the same way!

that easy,dont tell her.

X2