AFR BBF Head

Lem Evans wrote:36* timing...am reading that correctly?

Says 110-91 mix.

Straubtech wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:36* timing...am reading that correctly?

Says 110-91 mix.

Flat top motor.  Without a dome that chamber won't need a lot of lead.

Spoke with engine builder today.  Customer ran engine last year on pump.  They did dyno with a blend.  At 11.5 to 1 I don't feel there would be much to any gain.

68formalGT wrote:

Lem said he has a new set of P-51's maybe they can run the cnc program on them and not do any hand work to them and slap them on the same long block for a test. CNC head vs CNC head.

Lem Evans wrote:The 598 had 29.5*.

Carl wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:The 598 had 29.5*.

The AFR headed 528 in my car runs best on the real world dyno with 32* at 6000' elevation.  That's with a mix of 91 octane pump gas and Race Gas Concentrate which nets about 98 octane.  Figuring 1/2* for every 1000 feet, 29-30 at lower elevations would be about right.


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68galaxie wrote:Interesting "truthful" dyno testing.

The camshaft was very similar to the one used in the test Kaase did (comparing P51 to hemi).
In that test with a 521 cu inch platform Kaase gets 801 HP at 6700 rpm. (273/280 @ 0.050" 0.791" on 109 LSA  10:1 CR)

The AFR test shows a 521 engine with P51 heads just touched 700 hp. (275/285 @ 0.050 0.780" on 110 LSA 10:1 CR)
What gives?

The P51 seems 100 HP down from the Kaase test to the AFR test.

I find it hard to beliece a 521 with P51 heads and a resaonably large solid roller camshaft would only touch 700 HP.
Someone is full of something here.

Just my humble opinion.
Who am I to argue with AFR published test data?
But something smells fishy

Those P-51's were as cast out of the box. Is this what you mean by "slanted test' post on the Bullet? The TFS 325 is CNC finished. The AFR is partial CNC finished. Maybe a ported P-51 would be a fairer test. Rub on the AFR as well. While we're at it , bolt a pair of slicks to the dyno and see how it goes down the track. Lot a variables. This ain't the whole story.

rmcomprandy wrote:

68formalGT wrote:

Lem said he has a new set of P-51's maybe they can run the cnc program on them and not do any hand work to them and slap them on the same long block for a test. CNC head vs CNC head.

Whether or not a cylinder port is CNC machined makes absolutely no power difference from a good hand ported head; that CNC port was modeled after somebody's hand ported offering.

Mark Miller wrote:

Carl wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:The 598 had 29.5*.

The AFR headed 528 in my car runs best on the real world dyno with 32* at 6000' elevation.  That's with a mix of 91 octane pump gas and Race Gas Concentrate which nets about 98 octane.  Figuring 1/2* for every 1000 feet, 29-30 at lower elevations would be about right.


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Carl,i've read that Race Gas works good you've had good results with it?

Straubtech wrote:Here is the 521CID

Lem Evans wrote:

Straubtech wrote:Here is the 521CID

There's more power yet to get. That engine is pig fat at the top of the pull. Opening up the high speed bleeds at least .003" will help that.

Carl wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:The 598 had 29.5*.

The AFR headed 528 in my car runs best on the real world dyno with 32* at 6000' elevation.  That's with a mix of 91 octane pump gas and Race Gas Concentrate which nets about 98 octane.  Figuring 1/2* for every 1000 feet, 29-30 at lower elevations would be about right.


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The Mad Porter wrote:

Carl wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:The 598 had 29.5*.

The AFR headed 528 in my car runs best on the real world dyno with 32* at 6000' elevation.  That's with a mix of 91 octane pump gas and Race Gas Concentrate which nets about 98 octane.  Figuring 1/2* for every 1000 feet, 29-30 at lower elevations would be about right.


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What are you running for static c/r Carl?

Straubtech wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

Straubtech wrote:Here is the 521CID

There's more power yet to get. That engine is pig fat at the top of the pull. Opening up the high speed bleeds at least .003" will help that.

The goal was 700HP for the build.   My engine builder looked good, the customer was pleased.  So all goals were achieved.

Carl wrote:

Mark Miller wrote:

Carl wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:The 598 had 29.5*.

The AFR headed 528 in my car runs best on the real world dyno with 32* at 6000' elevation.  That's with a mix of 91 octane pump gas and Race Gas Concentrate which nets about 98 octane.  Figuring 1/2* for every 1000 feet, 29-30 at lower elevations would be about right.


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Carl,i've read that Race Gas works good you've had good results with it?

Yeah, I like it.  Turns the plugs orange, but seems to work well.  I tend to run straight pump gas on the street and add the Race Gas for racing.  Have also found myself in areas with nothing but 85 octane, and used the Race Gas to get the octane up over 90.  It's nice to be able to carry a few bottles in the trunk for those kinds of situations.

Mark Miller wrote:

Carl wrote:

Mark Miller wrote:

Carl wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:The 598 had 29.5*.

The AFR headed 528 in my car runs best on the real world dyno with 32* at 6000' elevation.  That's with a mix of 91 octane pump gas and Race Gas Concentrate which nets about 98 octane.  Figuring 1/2* for every 1000 feet, 29-30 at lower elevations would be about right.


.

Carl,i've read that Race Gas works good you've had good results with it?

Yeah, I like it.  Turns the plugs orange, but seems to work well.  I tend to run straight pump gas on the street and add the Race Gas for racing.  Have also found myself in areas with nothing but 85 octane, and used the Race Gas to get the octane up over 90.  It's nice to be able to carry a few bottles in the trunk for those kinds of situations.

Thanks,man only 85 octane fuel?We don't have anything lower than 87 octane here in Northeast,Ohio actually the one Sunoco station has 87,89,91 and 93 octane!!!

Carl wrote:

Mark Miller wrote:

Carl wrote:

Mark Miller wrote:

Carl wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:The 598 had 29.5*.

The AFR headed 528 in my car runs best on the real world dyno with 32* at 6000' elevation.  That's with a mix of 91 octane pump gas and Race Gas Concentrate which nets about 98 octane.  Figuring 1/2* for every 1000 feet, 29-30 at lower elevations would be about right.


.

Carl,i've read that Race Gas works good you've had good results with it?

Yeah, I like it.  Turns the plugs orange, but seems to work well.  I tend to run straight pump gas on the street and add the Race Gas for racing.  Have also found myself in areas with nothing but 85 octane, and used the Race Gas to get the octane up over 90.  It's nice to be able to carry a few bottles in the trunk for those kinds of situations.

Thanks,man only 85 octane fuel?We don't have anything lower than 87 octane here in Northeast,Ohio actually the one Sunoco station has 87,89,91 and 93 octane!!!

Standard octane grades at higher elevations are 85/87/91, and in a lot of rural areas there's no demand for 91 so they don't carry it.  You can easily find yourself 50+ miles from the nearest 91 octane, and even then it might be old because nobody buys it.


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BBFTorino wrote:So let me try to get this right....and correct me if Im wrong.
The AFR heads are a quality product, and they are better 'out of the box' than a P-51 or SCJ head, yes?
But with some porting, the P-51 and SCJ's would make more power than the AFR's, yes?
But with further porting on the AFR's, they would out perform the P-51 and SCJ's, yes?

Has anyone done any custom porting on a set of AFR's yet??....I mean like somewhat beyond the out of the box CNC job that they already have??
If so, it would be interesting to see the comparison of the CNC version against a hand ported version.

As I understand it, a set of P-51 or SCJ heads still needs the intake to be ported/matched to the heads (if one wants to optimize their combo), but the AFR intake matches the AFR heads a lot better right out of the box, yes?

57ford custom wrote:

BBFTorino wrote:So let me try to get this right....and correct me if Im wrong.
The AFR heads are a quality product, and they are better 'out of the box' than a P-51 or SCJ head, yes?
But with some porting, the P-51 and SCJ's would make more power than the AFR's, yes?
But with further porting on the AFR's, they would out perform the P-51 and SCJ's, yes?

Has anyone done any custom porting on a set of AFR's yet??....I mean like somewhat beyond the out of the box CNC job that they already have??
If so, it would be interesting to see the comparison of the CNC version against a hand ported version.

As I understand it, a set of P-51 or SCJ heads still needs the intake to be ported/matched to the heads (if one wants to optimize their combo), but the AFR intake matches the AFR heads a lot better right out of the box, yes?

I will have a dyno test in April of a 521 with some pretty well worked over P 51 cylinder heads but it won't be quite like most engines that that are posted here as it will have a worked over Weiand tunnel ram instead of the "normal" single four. These heads I have show 417 cfm on the intake and 284 on the exhaust but it should show some relavance to this this post as the flow result of my heads are what I consider pretty good as the intake side of my heads showed 377 before being worked over.

dfree383 wrote:I’m going to go out on a limb hear and say I don’t think any of the castings have any advantage over each other as cast.

Imo who’s doing the porting and valve job on the castings (whether custom or out of the box)  does dictate what you get, but ultimately once you get to the 400-410 cfm I’m not convinced gaining more airflow equates to more power or going faster.

I’m also starting to think the valve location on these low port heads does nothing but make a good show on the flow bench and does nothing to make things go faster either, if it is a gain it’s not big or may even go unnoticed, but same goes with the port entry shape be it square or round.

All this AFR voodoo is is a good marketing deal and an out of the box product that make life simple for bolt on guys, all the other quality heads, TFS, P-51, Eddy, BT, SCJ, A429 and even factory iron all have the same potential if you put the time in them.

Lem built a nice 598 and good to see people building Fords in sea of Chevys

Lem Evans wrote:



AFR deal with custom dome.