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Still overheating - Water Pump bypass hose?

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rmcomprandy
supervel45
bigblockfordfxstb
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Post  Dave De July 21st 2023, 9:47 pm

Close or apart is okay.
Dave De
Dave De

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Post  supervel45 July 22nd 2023, 12:47 am

bigblockfordfxstb wrote:well well well, look what we have here...


Still overheating - Water Pump bypass hose?  - Page 4 Screen11




Thank's For The Picture of The Backing Plates. Maybe it will save Time and Help Others in The Future, With A/The Same Issue. They Do Not Seem To Appear Anywhere in Gooogle Truth Land, That I have Found.



On The Transmission Coolers my Thought is, The Further it is Away From The Radiator, The Less  OF THE Transmission Heat Load will be Transmitted to The Radiators Engine Cooling Capacity.

Also at Stopped or  Very Slow Speed Operation, The Less Capacity The Transmission Cooler Will Have on Reducing Transmission Cooling Capacity, Due To Reduced Fan Airflow of the Fan/Fans and Up Against a Very Hot Radator will be Counter Productive Likely.

If The Transmission Lines are run trough the Engine Radiator in "Series" with an Aux. Air to Liquid Coil  I/E Tranmission Cooler, that Plumbing setup will Also Lower the Radiators Engine Cooling Capicty.  

In Load Calculation it is All a Very Delicate Balancing Act in the HVAC World and Many Factors are Taken into Account Like The High and Low Operating Perimeters of Nominal Expected Use Under Certain Temperatures, Ect. and Minimum and Maximum Climatic Tempatures and for How Long they Last, Say in Texas vs. NY and How they are Not the Same, For The Calculations, Since I had to Take all Those classes in my field, I tend to be biased and likely fall back on them around Automotive and Coils and Valves too much even though it might not be practical all/most of the time for Vechicles. The Engineers at The Big Automotive Companies Do, and I am Positive Though, when they size up a Vehicle and it's Intended Use for the Cooling System they use much of the same Math/Science. With The Hobbyist Car Guys myself included it is more of a educated belief and we know what has worked for us in the past and somewhat what has never worked for us to guide our estimations. Your Deal is One of The Hardest Problems most often to Exactly Pin Point and a Single Solution in my Experience, Can Be Very Complicated at Times.  



If I was having an Engine Temperature Problem I would space it away from the Radiator. Just my Opinion.

PS: RayDav's Suggestion on Stainless Steel Bolt's is an Excellent Suggestion, Thank's and Cool Duly Noted.

supervel45

Posts : 4424
Join date : 2013-09-04

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Post  bigblockfordfxstb July 24th 2023, 6:12 pm

supervel45 wrote:
bigblockfordfxstb wrote:well well well, look what we have here...


Still overheating - Water Pump bypass hose?  - Page 4 Screen11




Thank's For The Picture of The Backing Plates. Maybe it will save Time and Help Others in The Future, With A/The Same Issue. They Do Not Seem To Appear Anywhere in Gooogle Truth Land, That I have Found.



On The Transmission Coolers my Thought is, The Further it is Away From The Radiator, The Less  OF THE Transmission Heat Load will be Transmitted to The Radiators Engine Cooling Capacity.

Also at Stopped or  Very Slow Speed Operation, The Less Capacity The Transmission Cooler Will Have on Reducing Transmission Cooling Capacity, Due To Reduced Fan Airflow of the Fan/Fans and Up Against a Very Hot Radator will be Counter Productive Likely.

If The Transmission Lines are run trough the Engine Radiator in "Series" with an Aux. Air to Liquid Coil  I/E Tranmission Cooler, that Plumbing setup will Also Lower the Radiators Engine Cooling Capicty.  

In Load Calculation it is All a Very Delicate Balancing Act in the HVAC World and Many Factors are Taken into Account Like The High and Low Operating Perimeters of Nominal Expected Use Under Certain Temperatures, Ect. and Minimum and Maximum Climatic Tempatures and for How Long they Last, Say in Texas vs. NY and How they are Not the Same, For The Calculations, Since I had to Take all Those classes in my field, I tend to be biased and likely fall back on them around Automotive and Coils and Valves too much even though it might not be practical all/most of the time for Vechicles. The Engineers at The Big Automotive Companies Do, and I am Positive Though, when they size up a Vehicle and it's Intended Use for the Cooling System they use much of the same Math/Science. With The Hobbyist Car Guys myself included it is more of a educated belief and we know what has worked for us in the past and somewhat what has never worked for us to guide our estimations. Your Deal is One of The Hardest Problems most often to Exactly Pin Point and a Single Solution in my Experience, Can Be Very Complicated at Times.  



If I was having an Engine Temperature Problem I would space it away from the Radiator. Just my Opinion.

PS: RayDav's Suggestion on Stainless Steel Bolt's is an Excellent Suggestion, Thank's and  Cool Duly Noted.


I just reliased that did not take a measurement on thickness of the plates :-( they almost felt identical at the time but sure they could have been different :-(
bigblockfordfxstb
bigblockfordfxstb

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Post  bigblockfordfxstb August 9th 2023, 9:55 am

Well its been a while from last update with other commitments etc and only in evenings to put everything back together.

Not sure if any straws left to clutch... Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad

Waterpump does not appear to have resolved the issue, I had big hopes.

New 160F thermostat (checked in kitchen - all opened etc with temp probe)
New Top Hose

Checked bottom hose spring all good condition (sping inside is slightly shorter at the rad outlet end, so will check that small 2-3inch is not collapsing next time)
Bled  the system with of them them funnel things, let it cool, placed cap on - cap looks new good condition.


I have FITECH EFI --- one of the main drivers of this was to be able to adjust spark and fuel to combat this heat issue but here I am again today.... think I would have resolved it now as its been years with all the changes done to try and get to the bottom of it, starting to think its something else going on with the block. (and yes had it tanked, water jackets looked ok, and I put the motor together and made sure head gaskets on right, think I have photos to show it.

So before going down this route of water pump, I did play with Spark Advance / and Fuel ratio made no difference (have the logs from today) before the pump change -  tried a few more changes , but think it might need some more timing in it doubt it going to resolve the issue thou.

Today observed the same type of issue - once it starts getting hot keeps going one point it was climbing up and over 230f+. It all appears to get heat soaked and no recovery. Getting out onto a slightly open road at this points its already 220f so for 4-5 min like at 2.5K rpm and 50mph its comes back down to like 210-215F but soon as you get into the low 15-30mph speed suburb speed limits etc it climbs and the thermos are just going prob causing more of an issue for air flow I suspect when moving.

So will look at timing / fuel  again, some input might be good , but not sure what is left.
Ill upload the csv file (if it lets me)
Its a 4door car, mild cam, flattops (10.5:1), cast heads, dual plane intake, C6 - 2000-2500 tight stall.

dont see option to upload csv if anyone interested -

Think I have been over everything else multiple times -

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bigblockfordfxstb
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Post  supervel45 August 9th 2023, 10:35 am

Slowride wrote:Here's my .02 from my experience with overheating (and tight engine compartments). You don't have a coolant flow problem at speed, so your pump is fine. Heating up at low speed can be 2 things... normally it's insufficient flow through the radiator, but with a 200 thermostat it's hard to tell. The fact you have a tight engine compartment makes me suggest 2 things.
Ditch the 200 thermostat. Odds are your engine isn't machined for the tolerances a newer engine is, so go with a 180. I always drill an 1/8" hole in the thermostat to provide some limited flow past it.
After changing the thermostat, take off the hood. Yes, the hood. People seem to drill in on coolant flow to cure overheating, but if the air going through the radiator can't escape, it won't cool efficiently. A shroud covering the whole radiator core would help as well, but sounds like you don't have the room. You may consider re-doing your fan arrangement because you want SHROUDED CFM, not just flow over a limited core surface area.
Hope you see positive results!


Did you try removing the hood for a spin, to see if it helped any?

Also does the car still have a heater core and a functioning heater?

supervel45

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Post  bigblockfordfxstb August 9th 2023, 5:25 pm

It has a 160f thermostat not 200.
I've not tried with no hood as 1st drive was yesterday after pump change.

Yes has the heatercore function, one hose from pump , one hose from intake)

Currently I have a Half shroud on the rear will look to see about moving the pusher fan to rear.

I've seen similar type of cars conversion with this combo and don't have this issue.

I have a another slightly thinner less capacity radiator that had a twin rear fan shroud setup that should fit , .

bigblockfordfxstb
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Post  supervel45 August 9th 2023, 6:08 pm

I was not concerned on the Thermostat, I saw you had all that covered.

The reason I mentioned the Heater and Heater core bit, is because on one of mine I noticed when it is very Hot, and the Thermostat is wide open, the temperature will clime a letter or two higher, then it normally runs, with a factory gauge.

If I turn on the heater it will drop back down.

It may be an indication of an undersized radiator and or lack of airflow. I guess it's just another type of indicator is all.

I am not suggesting you run the heat as a fix for your issue. I was thinking if it did lower the temperature much, it may give you some idea how much lack of capacity your system has or some direction.

Same deal on removing the hood.

I was really hoping the new water pump and added flow would do the trick. It may still be of some benefit with other changes in the end, hopefully.

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Post  bigblockfordfxstb August 9th 2023, 6:18 pm

yes ok, I think the heater core is currently set to open. This current radiator has a larger capacity than the previous, but in turn I guess could be issue with airflow.

Before this current radiator pump I had like a triple row dual pass large radiator with shroud on back twin fans... the current is 4 , more capacity but less room...

Think I'll go to that small radiator, half the capacity, thinner but with the shroud on the rear twin cheap eBay unit to see what that does.

If it was a capacity issue not really sure what else I could do with the setup on space.

I'll see about getting the hood. for a trial or even raising it at the rear if possible.
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Post  supervel45 August 9th 2023, 7:13 pm

Sounds like a plan I guess.

The heater water loop may be flowing but if you turn the vent fan on high and blow air across it into the cabin it will add a minor amount of capacity to the cooling system.

If it does lower temps, at least you would have some idea that it's not a tuning problem or other engine type problem. At least that's my thought, at this point.

Some of the late model Lincoln fans are the big air movers alot of guys like. Use what you have for now and see if it helps. Going down on water capacity sucks though.

Keep at it and hopefully you adapt and overcome, as they say.

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