Oil in the intake everywhere

My motor is fogging the exhaust with oil. The intake is filmed everywhere with oil even on the carb spacer. At first I found that the intake gaskets were not sealing to the valley and sucking oil but I put new gaskets in and more sealant this time but then it seemed better until I took it up to 6k rpm. I took the intake off and the gaskets did seal the ports.
Random compression check shows consistent 210 psi.

This is what I got in a new build.
SCJ heads ported, Diamond forged pistons, .680 roller 280 duration, 13.5 comp., 547 cu-in, victor manifold, Cometic head gaskets.
Open breathers on the valve covers running E85.

I am stumped.

Dave

You really need to do a leak down test to determine what could be wrong. By chance are you running an accu-sump with an electric valve? I did one time put the valve on backward and had 3 extra quarts of oil in the pan and had some problems.

Ace

Did you put pipe dope, RTV, or thread sealer on your intake rocker studs? If not, you are sucking oil under the guide plates and through the intake rocker stud holes into the intake port.

Charlie

Uncle Charlie....will this happen with every SCJ head?

It will happen on every head,,,,,where the intake rocker stud bolt hole breaks through into the roof of the intake port. It doesn't matter if it is a BB Chevy head, or a TFS A-460 head, or so on. The port velocity of the SCJ heads and the P-51 heads is exceptionally high, and therefore it creates a vaccum and wants to suck oil through even the smallest gap or opening. Another place to use sealer is in the old DOOE-R heads where the top two end valve cover bolt holes breaks through into the intake ports.

Uncle Charlie

'65 T-BOLT wrote:Uncle Charlie....will this happen with every SCJ head?

No. The SCJ come from FRPP with loctite on the threads. If someone has removed the studs they may need to be resealed.

c.evans wrote:Did you put pipe dope, RTV, or thread sealer on your intake rocker studs? If not, you are sucking oil under the guide plates and through the intake rocker stud holes into the intake port.

Charlie

I used thread locker on the thru rocker stud holes and the 4 valve cover screws at the top. This is a wet sump system with a 7 quart rear sump Moroso pan and the Kaase oil pump. It also has gapless Total Seal top rings.

What's the best plan to run this down?

Dave

I had this problem one time took the total seal rings out and all it went away.Never had any luck with gapless rings, some people do but I have not.

fc2444 wrote:I had this problem one time took the total seal rings out and all it went away.Never had any luck with gapless rings, some people do but I have not.

I dont understand how piston ring performance can put oil into the intake.

So, the oil seems to be coming from every port?

What does the bottom of the manifold look like? I had a very small crack in my A460 and seen oil pooling up in the valley. Look real close to the bottom for any possible hair line cracks that may be under the runner or base.

Ace

Dave De wrote:

fc2444 wrote:I had this problem one time took the total seal rings out and all it went away.Never had any luck with gapless rings, some people do but I have not.

I dont understand how piston ring performance can put oil into the intake.

I'm not saying it is but, oil from a cylinder[s] can revert into the intake manifold during 'overlap'........the time both the intake and exh. valves are off the seat.

Lem Evans wrote:

Dave De wrote:

fc2444 wrote:I had this problem one time took the total seal rings out and all it went away.Never had any luck with gapless rings, some people do but I have not.

I dont understand how piston ring performance can put oil into the intake.

I'm not saying it is but, oil from a cylinder[s] can revert into the intake manifold during 'overlap'........the time both the intake and exh. valves are off the seat.

I see that now so step one is to do a leak down test.

Be absolutely sure that the oil you see is ENGINE oil. I once had a failed vacuum modulator in the trans of my old Mustang... The leaking diaphragm allowed trans fluid to be sucked up the tube and into the intake. It was a real mosquito fogger.

maverick wrote:Be absolutely sure that the oil you see is ENGINE oil. I once had a failed vacuum modulator in the trans of my old Mustang... The leaking diaphragm allowed trans fluid to be sucked up the tube and into the intake. It was a real mosquito fogger.

X2 i had a cleveland that did that. scared me as it was a brand new build

maverick wrote:Be absolutely sure that the oil you see is ENGINE oil. I once had a failed vacuum modulator in the trans of my old Mustang... The leaking diaphragm allowed trans fluid to be sucked up the tube and into the intake. It was a real mosquito fogger.

Good idea but my modulator is not used as it has a manual valve body. I am going to buy the leak down tester tomorrow and will post results.
Some other answers to the questions.
The manifold is a victor so if it was cracked in the valley it would not leak into the runners unless it cracked across the flange. I checked it anyway and it isnt cracked.
Compression check on all cylinders is 210 to 220. Plugs 1-5 and 8 are oil fouled while most of the oil is in 1, 2, and 5. Every intake port has a thick oil film in it. The valve stems look well lubricated. Alcohol and oil mixture is a sticky mess. It did run good for the first 2 hours after it was put together.
This is how I see it now
1. Bad rings
2. Leak in the head thru a stud or two
3. Cracked head intake port.
4. ???

Dave

seal up the crankcase.............in other words plug off any braeathers, dipstick etc and just leave one valve cover breather hole open, if it were a ring issue there should be a good bit of pressure (blowby) if its a intake racker stud seal there should be a vacuum..........I assume there are no top lube or additives in the fuel?

If it was a new engine, or fresh rebuild, and it was run with alcohol from day one,,,,,,,,I'm going to say that the rings were never seated. I strongly recommend that alcohol guys break in their engine on gasoline and make sure that the rings get "hooked up" before switching it over to alky.

Uncle Charlie

Not to be contrary but I have broke many a motor in on alky and never had an issue with rings sealing up, i cant speak for E85 or anything though.

c.evans wrote:If it was a new engine, or fresh rebuild, and it was run with alcohol from day one,,,,,,,,I'm going to say that the rings were never seated. I strongly recommend that alcohol guys break in their engine on gasoline and make sure that the rings get "hooked up" before switching it over to alky.

Uncle Charlie

I have leak down numbers that seem way high even without a breakin.
Leakage numbers 1 thru 8 and all of the noise is below without anything coming thru the valves.
40, 55, 40, 35, 35, 45, 45, 20

I dont understand how this happened I filed them at spec to .002 over. My pistons are Diamond 40525's with the Total Seal rings that came from Diamond except for the top being a gapless ring. I'll see more when I remove them in a few days.

Ring recommendations are welcome..

Dave

WHERE DID YOU HAVE THE PISTON DURING THE LEAK DOWN?

BOSS 429 wrote:WHERE DID YOU HAVE THE PISTON DURING THE LEAK DOWN?

The numbers that were posted earlier were from a Harbor Freight tester and they didnt seem right. I bought an OTC leak down tester and ratio'd the pressure per instructions while at TDC

leak-down numbers are from firing order 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 22%, 0, 0, 0, 16%, 0, 19%, 0
Odd to get zero numbers but it is relative. 1, 6, and 7 are suspect. Blown head gasket between 6 and 7? But the compression numbers were at 210 and 220.

Any ideas here?

It helps if the engine is warm or at temperature when doing a leakdown test, so hopefully it was. The beauty of a leakdown test is that you listen at four places.

1. Air escaping back through the carb indicates the intake valves are not sealing.
2. Remove the radiator cap, and air escaping into the radiator indicates a blown head gasket.
3. Listen at the header collector, and air escaping through the exhaust indicates the exhaust valves are not sealing.
4. Listen at the oil pan, or crankcase breather and air escaping into the crankcase indicates the rings are not sealing.

Hope this helps,

Charlie

c.evans wrote:It helps if the engine is warm or at temperature when doing a leakdown test, so hopefully it was. The beauty of a leakdown test is that you listen at four places.

1. Air escaping back through the carb indicates the intake valves are not sealing.
2. Remove the radiator cap, and air escaping into the radiator indicates a blown head gasket.
3. Listen at the header collector, and air escaping through the exhaust indicates the exhaust valves are not sealing.
4. Listen at the oil pan, or crankcase breather and air escaping into the crankcase indicates the rings are not sealing.

Hope this helps,

Charlie

In all cases the air is coming from the pan thru the valley because the intake was removed. there isnt any sound coming thru the other openings.
I'm thinking that if the pan comes off I am going to re-ring this with standard rings but with the numbers here would this be sucking oil to this extent? And is a leak down test going to show the oil leaking problem?

Zero gap stuff will give a great leak down reading.....