Re: I need some help. Engine keeps getting too hot.

dutchie July 11th 2010, 10:55 am

the powdercoated rearend:

I need some help. Engine keeps getting too hot. - Page 2 Dsc01809jz

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I need some help. Engine keeps getting too hot. - Page 2 Dsc01810v

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I need some help. Engine keeps getting too hot. - Page 2 Dsc01811v

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I need some help. Engine keeps getting too hot. - Page 2 Dsc01812mh

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

res0rli9 July 11th 2010, 11:02 am

OK! I see the problem now!! its the powdercoated rearend: Razz

j/k

looks good Cool

dutchie July 11th 2010, 11:07 am

res0rli9 wrote:OK! I see the problem now!! its the powdercoated rearend: j/k

looks good

naah, just wanting to show off something that is good to look at... Smile

One needs to have some fun somewhere, to keep the good faith, right?

ps.: Did you notice the drain plug?
saves a lot of cursing when changing rearend oil... Cool

res0rli9 July 11th 2010, 11:18 am

One needs to have some fun somewhere, to keep the good faith, right?

yes, thats the only way I get buy. cheers

maverick July 11th 2010, 11:53 am

A friend and I went through the same BS with a 514 in a Mach 1. The stock shroud and a belt driven Flex-a-lite fan cured it. I'm thinking Dave's right.

dutchie July 11th 2010, 11:58 am

okay, i will do so after dinner.
Shall i put the aluminum radiator back in, or try first with the copper one for comparisation purposes?

the Coug July 11th 2010, 12:04 pm

di you make sure the restrictor plate was under the thermostat?

Randy

dutchie July 11th 2010, 12:12 pm

randy,
i don't exactly know what you mean by the restrictor plate?
When you take a look at the pictres of the thermostat that i took for you, you can see on the last one the cast ring in the block, where the thermostat pushes against.
When you see the back ot the thermostat, the whole back (toroid cilinder) comes down when heated up, and actually does block the cast hole in the block.
i measured the opening of the thermostat, and the depth of the hole, and they match.

is this what you mean?

A stock thermostat doesn't block the cast hole indeed, which keeps the water circulating.

billandlori July 11th 2010, 12:55 pm

I agree with Dave too. I use a 7 blade Flex-a-lite fan with a stock shroud and a Summit 5.0 Mustang replacement aluminum rad. This thing moves LOTS of air!!

You would think two electric fans would be good but the big mechanical fans just seem to move more air.

I need some help. Engine keeps getting too hot. - Page 2 000_0100

I need some help. Engine keeps getting too hot. - Page 2 000_0100

I need some help. Engine keeps getting too hot. - Page 2 000_0101

Bill

whatbumper July 11th 2010, 1:16 pm

If you have the stock shroud put that sucker back on and put a mechanical fan on. Didn't really think of that because most people throw that stuff away when you replace it. Either radiator is good if they are clean and in working order.

dutchie July 11th 2010, 1:57 pm

Well, i think the verdict is in.... In favor of the old, stock, ugly, crappy, ancient, mechanical fan... Shocked

Even though the ambient temperature is quite some bit colder now as yesterday, the temp. stayed at 190-195 F.
There is one thing i can't place though.
As the temp stayed stable, i did a little piece 90 Mph, at 3000 rpm's.
The temp rose to 205F.
But: it stays there!!!
I did a piece 55 after that, and had it idle in front of my house, temp. stayed 205F. ??

is there any reasonable explanation for that?

The valvetrain rattles it's way though.
return radiator hose is quite hot to the feel.

Tomorrow i will throw in the aluminum radiater, and see what the results with that are.
Also plan to pour in the thicker oil, 20W60, to be stable at the higher heat.

I still suspect the valvetrain to be guilty of generating heat due not fully opening valves...

Any clues?

And really, really, thanks for all the help so far!.

bb429power July 11th 2010, 2:24 pm

If you don't like the look of the original fan, then you can get a different one. Use the bracket or spacer that you have on it in the pictures shown, and put a fan in front of it. One like this should work great.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G4920/
This is the bracket I was talking about, the one in front of the pulley.
I need some help. Engine keeps getting too hot. - Page 2 Dsc01799gl

I need some help. Engine keeps getting too hot. - Page 2 Dsc01799gl

dutchie July 11th 2010, 2:36 pm

Thanks,

I will adress looks later on, now it just has to cool it down. (and i wont have the fan here in time anyway...)
The pulley you refer to, is indeed where my mech. fan is on right now.

When the 466 goes in, i wil re-design the cooling system, and may even pull some money out of the pocket (ouch, was it me saying this??) and buy me the largest possible fitting griffin aluminum radiator.

Then, however, i'm still thinking about electric fan(s).

they claim to have it with double electric fans for 600+HP !!

it sure has to cool my stock-with-some-mods-466, right?

I will open a new topic by then, and refer to this one Smile

For now, the only 2 problems still standing is the rattling valvetrain at high temp, and the 205F that won't go down.

Anyone that can trow in another good idea? Very Happy

We're on track now anyway, so... Smile

Thanks.

bb429power July 11th 2010, 2:59 pm

There is an oil called "Miracle Oil" that you put in your oil, I have heard nothing but good things about it. It is supposed to get rid of valvetrain noise and it has worked for some people. But if your problem occurs when it gets super hot then I don't think it will work. Your oil might be getting thinned out from getting so hot, but I don't know that. At about what temp. do you start to hear the noise at?

dutchie July 11th 2010, 3:11 pm

i hear it when the hood is open, soits hard to say exact.
My guesstimate is from 200F and up...
this is also when the oilpressure gets lower.
At 180, it still reads 55PSI.
From there on, it gets lower gradually.

whatbumper July 11th 2010, 3:20 pm

I would try something like this.........
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQFordQQP-400QQStantQQThermostatQQ19751976QQST45356.html

dutchie July 11th 2010, 3:26 pm

won't fit the 351M/400 engine...

I think the one i have is actually a great high flowing thermostat, ad the whole cilinder opens itself up.
(i should have taken a picture of it...)
the whole bottom comes off, so to say..

rmcomprandy July 11th 2010, 5:29 pm

dutchie wrote:Randy, Justin, for starters, everything helps, even thinking with/for me already is great i think.

i will pull the thermostat tomorrow and see. i will take a picture of it.
I also got the advise to drill a little hole in it, to have a little flow always thru the radiator. Seems like a good one, always having a little flow of good cold water to the block.
Tomorrow i will also restrict flow a bit to the vaporiser, preventing it from getting too hot, and thus heating the incoming gas flow.

Radiator can't be clogged i think, as i get the same results with both radiators (the copper runs a little hotter i seems, or it should heat more due the rearend change..)

I torqued the head in the correct sequence, starting from the center, crossing in a "W" style to the outside. Torqued it at 130LB/ft. (Darn, it was tough! had to push it with the left hand, and eventually my wife helped holding it straight while i pulled the torque wrench )

earlyer on the day i already backed the ignition a bit, and it helped getting "less too hot", so to say..

Thanks for all the advice!.

First - 130/140 ft/lb of torque is for a BIG BLOCK FORD. The cylinder head torque value for a 351M/400 is 95/105 ft/lb.
Now, when I clicked on the second page of this thread, my computor locked-up.
In the future, you should know that if you post more than TWO photos, you have just lost everyone with "dial up" access.

This may not be what is happening however, your heat problem is a "classic" problem which shows-up when one head gasket is installed backwards.
This CAN be checked with everything together IF you have Ford head gaskets or exact replacements. Just above the bottom corner head bolts, the front and rear of the head gaskets are different. ONE bottom corner of the head gasket is square and ONE bottom corner is round; the square corner MUST go toward the FRONT of the engine.

dutchie July 11th 2010, 5:39 pm

Randy, thanks for the great info (again). I will take a look at all my photo's to see if i have one with the gaskets.
Will check the car tomorrow also.
As we have broadband all over the country here, i didn't realise there are still modems being sold, ,my apologies for that.

About the torque:

My ford book says:
351c: 95-105 final
351c boss and ho: 120 final
429/460: 130-140 final

now, i know that 429/460 is the 385 series, and the 351M/400 is 335, but i figured as both are referred to as bigblocks, i shoult take the 385 series torque..

dutchie July 11th 2010, 5:47 pm

this is what i found, seems square in front to me, but i'll check tomorrow.

edit:
now, when putting strain on my memory, i recall there was "front" written on the headgaskets if i'm not mistaken.
What also comes to mind, is that the heads are exchangable left and right. If that is true, how can the gasket then always be pointing to the front (or rear) of the block? Or has it something to do with the block itself?

I need some help. Engine keeps getting too hot. - Page 2 Gaskets

I need some help. Engine keeps getting too hot. - Page 2 Gaskets

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

rmcomprandy July 11th 2010, 5:48 pm

dutchie wrote:Randy, thanks for the great info (again). I will take a look at all my photo's to see if i have one with the gaskets.
Will check the car tomorrow also.
As we have broadband all over the country here, i didn't realise there are still modems being sold, ,my apologies for that.

About the torque:

My ford book says:
351c: 95-105 final
351c boss and ho: 120 final
429/460: 130-140 final

now, i know that 429/460 is the 385 series, and the 351M/400 is 335, but i figured as both are referred to as bigblocks, i shoult take the 385 series torque..

It's all about bolt diameter and the thread strength.
The 385 series head bolt is 9/16" diameter, (about 14.25mm), and the Clevelands, Windsors and Modified (M) engines have 1/2" diameter head bolts, (about 12.75mm).

YES ... the square is showing in the front; now you need to check the other side.

whatbumper July 11th 2010, 8:10 pm

As far as the pushrod Ford engines are concerned All 400's, 351's, 302's, 289's and Y blocks are small blocks.

The Ford big blocks are the 385 series, the FE motors, the super duty engines and the MEL series

The part number that I posted is the one I put in my 351m work truck. I just measure and get what I need from the parts store. I don't let the counter monkeys tell me what I need. lol!

95lightiningguy July 12th 2010, 2:03 am

Dont remember seeing if someone suggested making sure the fans are blowing air the right way, you should feel air blowing toward engine. Also are you using coolant and water mix or just water. Plain water can boil pretty easily in an engine. Also make sure your cap is good. Just somethings to look at. Very Happy

dutchie July 12th 2010, 3:27 pm

It is that obvious that it may be forgotten indeed, but they do blow the correct direction.

with all the swapping, i use water.

Also, water cools best, about twice as good as 50% water/glycol mix, and about 70% better as pure coolant.

rmcomprandy July 13th 2010, 12:12 am

dutchie wrote:It is that obvious that it may be forgotten indeed, but they do blow the correct direction.

with all the swapping, i use water.

Also, water cools best, about twice as good as 50% water/glycol mix, and about 70% better as pure coolant.

YES ... water will cool the best however, adding SOME antifreeze/coolant will raise the boiling temperature of that liquid.

I use Propolene Glycol antifreeze/coolant, not Ethylene Glycol.
Propolene Glycol is ecologically friendly as it is bio-degradeable.

Sponsored content