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No more aftermarket iron blocks

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J.Toney
hbstang
rmcomprandy
cool40
supervel45
FDB
QtrWarrior
BBFTorino
dfree383
Mark O'Neal
stanger68
Lem Evans
Dave De
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Post  Dave De November 3rd 2023, 5:19 pm

More than likely the pattern equipment has loose pieces to accommodate the bore variations instead of two sets of patterns.

I heard that the first lot sold out to a big box house. The next lot will be available in a few weeks.
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Post  maverick172 November 4th 2023, 10:27 am

Dave De wrote:More than likely the pattern equipment has loose pieces to accommodate the bore variations instead of two sets of patterns.

I heard that the first lot sold out to a big box house. The next lot will be available in a few weeks.  
when i called my local ford dealer they said i could order a block no problem they spoke to the ford performance and i can get one if i wish .
i was quoted 5980cad plus shipping for a block .
i also talked with kasse a few weeks back in regards to the elimiinator aluminum blocks and was told they do not recommend these for 1500hp let alone 2000hp unit so looks like i may be ordering 1 of these a460 big bore blocks i think i would set it up as a 4.5x 4.5 this way i can always bore in the future if and when block wears out .
does anyone know do these blocks need to be line bored and line honed or are they done from ford.?
i know the block needs to be decked and bored.
what other machine work would need to be done to it ?

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Post  rmcomprandy November 4th 2023, 11:59 am

maverick172 wrote:what would you recommend for a stroker kit for a 598 now is there any kits or best just buy a crank rods and pistons ?
rmcomprandy wrote:
supervel45 wrote:

I am struggling to see where there is much difference from the old small bore and big bore A460 Block's short of the "New Tooling"

Easy 598 is Nothing New. Like Lem said, They used to offer 598 Stroker Kits in the Old SVO Catalogs. It Seemed that he said with Callies Cranks also, if I remember correctly.

The 598 kits had Arias pistons with aluminum rods and a crankshaft of FORD AMS forged steel made from their raw forging; the raw forgings which were eventually bought out by Bryant.

NOT needing to pay some shop to bore a rough bore 4.345" block to 4.500" inch bore is a pretty good reason and block cast iron is over $3.00 per pound to the manufacturer..

That kit came with a special "hand picked" A460 block with roller cam bearings, (had its own part number), bores already finish honed to 4.625" specifically for those internals. ( I would say that in the mid 90's, it was ahead of its time).
There are probably some companies who offer that type rotating assembly as a kit these days but, I don't think any include a finished block.

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Post  rmcomprandy November 4th 2023, 12:07 pm

maverick172 wrote:
Dave De wrote:More than likely the pattern equipment has loose pieces to accommodate the bore variations instead of two sets of patterns.

I heard that the first lot sold out to a big box house. The next lot will be available in a few weeks.  
when i called my local ford dealer they said i could order a block no problem they spoke to the ford performance and i can get one if i wish .
i was quoted 5980cad plus shipping for a block .
i also talked with kasse a few weeks back in regards to the elimiinator aluminum blocks and was told they do not recommend these for 1500hp let alone 2000hp unit so looks like i may be ordering 1 of these a460 big bore blocks i think i would set it up as a 4.5x 4.5 this way i can always bore in the future if and when block wears out .
does anyone know do these blocks need to be line bored and line honed or are they done from ford.?
i know the block needs to be decked and bored.
what other machine work would need to be done to it ?

The older A460 blocks sometimes needed to have the lifter bores finish honed to size, (they were bored usually a thou or so too small), but, I don't know about these.

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Post  maverick172 November 4th 2023, 3:56 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
maverick172 wrote:
Dave De wrote:More than likely the pattern equipment has loose pieces to accommodate the bore variations instead of two sets of patterns.

I heard that the first lot sold out to a big box house. The next lot will be available in a few weeks.  
when i called my local ford dealer they said i could order a block no problem they spoke to the ford performance and i can get one if i wish .
i was quoted 5980cad plus shipping for a block .
i also talked with kasse a few weeks back in regards to the elimiinator aluminum blocks and was told they do not recommend these for 1500hp let alone 2000hp unit so looks like i may be ordering 1 of these a460 big bore blocks i think i would set it up as a 4.5x 4.5 this way i can always bore in the future if and when block wears out .
does anyone know do these blocks need to be line bored and line honed or are they done from ford.?
i know the block needs to be decked and bored.
what other machine work would need to be done to it ?

The older A460 blocks sometimes needed to have the lifter bores finish honed to size, (they were bored usually a thou or so too small), but, I don't know about these.
well if thats all that is needed that is not too shabby.
so my local machine shop tells me that they do not bore with a torque plate or hone with it . do you see any issues with this? i have heard mixed ideas on this ?

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Post  supervel45 November 4th 2023, 4:18 pm

maverick172 wrote:
Dave De wrote:More than likely the pattern equipment has loose pieces to accommodate the bore variations instead of two sets of patterns.

I heard that the first lot sold out to a big box house. The next lot will be available in a few weeks.  
when i called my local ford dealer they said i could order a block no problem they spoke to the ford performance and i can get one if i wish .
i was quoted 5980cad plus shipping for a block .
i also talked with kasse a few weeks back in regards to the elimiinator aluminum blocks and was told they do not recommend these for 1500hp let alone 2000hp unit so looks like i may be ordering 1 of these a460 big bore blocks i think i would set it up as a 4.5x 4.5 this way i can always bore in the future if and when block wears out .
does anyone know do these blocks need to be line bored and line honed or are they done from ford.?
i know the block needs to be decked and bored.
what other machine work would need to be done to it ?

My Thought is if you are Going Turbo, Cubic Inch's is Not Always the Answer.

Some of The Quickest as Well as Fastest Cars Now Seem to Be Between 540 and 560 CID.

If it was Me, I would probably go with a 4.3" Stroke, 6.8" Rod and a 4.5" or So Bore.

Like You Said, Save The Block for Future Rebuilds/OverHauls, Makes A Lot of Sense. Cool

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Post  J.Toney November 5th 2023, 7:43 am

maverick172 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
maverick172 wrote:
Dave De wrote:More than likely the pattern equipment has loose pieces to accommodate the bore variations instead of two sets of patterns.

I heard that the first lot sold out to a big box house. The next lot will be available in a few weeks.  
when i called my local ford dealer they said i could order a block no problem they spoke to the ford performance and i can get one if i wish .
i was quoted 5980cad plus shipping for a block .
i also talked with kasse a few weeks back in regards to the elimiinator aluminum blocks and was told they do not recommend these for 1500hp let alone 2000hp unit so looks like i may be ordering 1 of these a460 big bore blocks i think i would set it up as a 4.5x 4.5 this way i can always bore in the future if and when block wears out .
does anyone know do these blocks need to be line bored and line honed or are they done from ford.?
i know the block needs to be decked and bored.
what other machine work would need to be done to it ?

The older A460 blocks sometimes needed to have the lifter bores finish honed to size, (they were bored usually a thou or so too small), but, I don't know about these.
well if thats all that is needed that is not too shabby.
so my local machine shop tells me that they do not bore with a torque plate or hone with it . do you see any issues with this? i have heard mixed  ideas on this ?

Considering VERY few folks have gotten this new block, I’m not sure how much valid info you’ll get at this point. If a year or two, different story. Guys Randy, Phillip, Bob, Tony, Jon and maybe a few others might have actually had hands on them yet, to see what does and does not need finish work.

Speaking from experience with my late A460 block from the mid 2010’s:
-It DEFINITELY needed the main bore honed, bore diameter was on the tight side, and varied bore to bore
-Deck had to be squared, had about +.010 taper from front to rear.

-I personally would want a torque plate used for honing.  If you are trying to make elevated power, you should take elevated measure to be sure its worth it.
Did you mention wanting to be somewhere in the 1500-2200 hp range?  Torque plates are a proven basic method and should be a standard, especially at this level.
As for aluminum blocks at 2000hp level, look into C&C. I think they can come solid or w/water jackets.  Do a search for them.
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Post  maverick172 November 5th 2023, 11:11 am

well aluminum is out of my price range . pretty sure i am going to go with the cast iron . the savings in the block i can put towards better internals and be further ahead.just have to decide on the stroke pretty sure i would go with a 4.5 bore stroke i am undecided i have a 4.3 crank in my 521 and 6.8 rod in there now i could use those in the new build also not sure on the compression ratio to go as i want to turbo this engine . i also would like to use my sr-71 heads and move them over to this new platform.
only thing concerning to me is if i have to have a bunch extra" machine work done to block " that was not exspecting . ya i might take block to a bigger city and get it done as local shop is iffy to say the least .

Considering VERY few folks have gotten this new block, I’m not sure how much valid info you’ll get at this point. If a year or two, different story. Guys Randy, Phillip, Bob, Tony, Jon and maybe a few others might have actually had hands on them yet, to see what does and does not need finish work.

Speaking from experience with my late A460 block from the mid 2010’s:
-It DEFINITELY needed the main bore honed, bore diameter was on the tight side, and varied bore to bore
-Deck had to be squared, had about +.010 taper from front to rear.

-I personally would want a torque plate used for honing.  If you are trying to make elevated power, you should take elevated measure to be sure its worth it.
Did you mention wanting to be somewhere in the 1500-2200 hp range?  Torque plates are a proven basic method and should be a standard, especially at this level.
As for aluminum blocks at 2000hp level, look into C&C. I think they can come solid or w/water jackets.  Do a search for them.[/quote]

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Post  supervel45 November 5th 2023, 12:45 pm

^ Whether a Torque Plate is Needed or Not, If NO Torque Plates at The Machine Shop for a 385 Series Ford, NO Touch My $4K Bock, If I Had One.

Just Saying Rolling Eyes

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Post  maverick172 November 7th 2023, 12:54 pm

Dave De wrote:I just got off the phone with Ford Performance tech line. The block isn't released yet but should be released on the 6th. Look for some detail released at PRI.
Info from the tech line
A460XBB
bore capable 4.490-4.600
10.320 deck height
18 bolt head configuration
275 pounds
4 bolt main caps for mains 2,3, and 4
apperently they sold out in 3 hrs on the first day . i dunno . about bbf aftermarket parts anymore

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Post  Dave De November 7th 2023, 1:38 pm

maverick172 wrote:
Dave De wrote:I just got off the phone with Ford Performance tech line. The block isn't released yet but should be released on the 6th. Look for some detail released at PRI.
Info from the tech line
A460XBB
bore capable 4.490-4.600
10.320 deck height
18 bolt head configuration
275 pounds
4 bolt main caps for mains 2,3, and 4
apperently they sold out in 3 hrs on the first day . i dunno . about bbf aftermarket parts anymore

The word was that they only had 62 blocks to sell. I'm thinking that was the first run probably only 100 blocks. The other 38 or less blocks were used for high end test builds that passed the grade. I'm sure that we can all appreciate that. The next lots are rolling thru in a few weeks? My name is on that when they get to Livonia.
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Post  rmcomprandy November 7th 2023, 5:20 pm

Dave De wrote:
maverick172 wrote:
Dave De wrote:I just got off the phone with Ford Performance tech line. The block isn't released yet but should be released on the 6th. Look for some detail released at PRI.
Info from the tech line
A460XBB
bore capable 4.490-4.600
10.320 deck height
18 bolt head configuration
275 pounds
4 bolt main caps for mains 2,3, and 4
apperently they sold out in 3 hrs on the first day . i dunno . about bbf aftermarket parts anymore

The word was that they only had 62 blocks to sell. I'm thinking that was the first run probably only 100 blocks. The other 38 or less blocks were used for high end test builds that passed the grade. I'm sure that we can all appreciate that. The next lots are rolling thru in a few weeks? My name is on that when they get to Livonia.

It was told to me that whatever the amount of blocks there were to sell, that they sold-out all of them in 42 minutes.

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Post  supervel45 November 8th 2023, 1:26 am

Dave De wrote:
maverick172 wrote:
Dave De wrote:I just got off the phone with Ford Performance tech line. The block isn't released yet but should be released on the 6th. Look for some detail released at PRI.
Info from the tech line
A460XBB
bore capable 4.490-4.600
10.320 deck height
18 bolt head configuration
275 pounds
4 bolt main caps for mains 2,3, and 4
apperently they sold out in 3 hrs on the first day . i dunno . about bbf aftermarket parts anymore

The word was that they only had 62 blocks to sell. I'm thinking that was the first run probably only 100 blocks. The other 38 or less blocks were used for high end test builds that passed the grade. I'm sure that we can all appreciate that. The next lots are rolling thru in a few weeks? My name is on that when they get to Livonia.

All I Can Say Guys is WTF.

62 Blocks, Seriously. If They are Going to Continue The 385 Series for The Whole U.S.A. Canada Aussie Land NZ UK Ect. They Better Cast a Buch More Blocks and Quite Jacking Everyone The Fuck Around.

They Can Keep Their Bull Shit For $3,950 Too!!! Evil or Very Mad

I Really Really Really Hope A Serious Aftermarket Company Comes Along and Makes a Metric Shit Ton of Good 460 Cast Iron Blocks and Breaks It Off In Ford's Ass for This Shit. Piss On Them. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil

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Post  dfree383 November 8th 2023, 10:48 am

supervel45 wrote:
Dave De wrote:
maverick172 wrote:
Dave De wrote:I just got off the phone with Ford Performance tech line. The block isn't released yet but should be released on the 6th. Look for some detail released at PRI.
Info from the tech line
A460XBB
bore capable 4.490-4.600
10.320 deck height
18 bolt head configuration
275 pounds
4 bolt main caps for mains 2,3, and 4
apperently they sold out in 3 hrs on the first day . i dunno . about bbf aftermarket parts anymore

The word was that they only had 62 blocks to sell. I'm thinking that was the first run probably only 100 blocks. The other 38 or less blocks were used for high end test builds that passed the grade. I'm sure that we can all appreciate that. The next lots are rolling thru in a few weeks? My name is on that when they get to Livonia.

All I Can Say Guys is WTF.

62 Blocks, Seriously. If They are Going to Continue The 385 Series for The Whole U.S.A. Canada Aussie Land NZ UK Ect. They Better Cast a Buch More Blocks and Quite Jacking Everyone The Fuck Around.

They Can Keep Their Bull Shit For $3,950 Too!!! Evil or Very Mad

I Really Really Really Hope A Serious Aftermarket Company Comes Along and Makes a Metric Shit Ton of Good 460 Cast Iron Blocks and Breaks It Off In Ford's Ass for This Shit. Piss On Them. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil

Great attitude…… that price is very fair given the current economy
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Post  maverick172 November 8th 2023, 11:24 am

i can understand the frustration , but i think 3950 is not a terrible price . i heard they have another round of blocks available in 3 weeks ..
All I Can Say Guys is WTF.

62 Blocks, Seriously. If They are Going to Continue The 385 Series for The Whole U.S.A. Canada Aussie Land NZ UK Ect. They Better Cast a Buch More Blocks and Quite Jacking Everyone The Fuck Around.

They Can Keep Their Bull Shit For $3,950 Too!!! Evil or Very Mad

I Really Really Really Hope A Serious Aftermarket Company Comes Along and Makes a Metric Shit Ton of Good 460 Cast Iron Blocks and Breaks It Off In Ford's Ass for This Shit. Piss On Them. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil[/quote]

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Post  rmcomprandy November 8th 2023, 11:37 am

dfree383 wrote:

Great attitude…… that price is very fair given the current economy

Ford could have simply held those blocks until the next machining run was finished and had more to sell but, that initial release was probably to test the price in the marketplace.
It seems that selling out in 42 minutes that the price was acceptable to a lot of people.

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Post  supervel45 November 8th 2023, 6:28 pm

dfree383 wrote:
supervel45 wrote:
Dave De wrote:
maverick172 wrote:
Dave De wrote:I just got off the phone with Ford Performance tech line. The block isn't released yet but should be released on the 6th. Look for some detail released at PRI.
Info from the tech line
A460XBB
bore capable 4.490-4.600
10.320 deck height
18 bolt head configuration
275 pounds
4 bolt main caps for mains 2,3, and 4
apperently they sold out in 3 hrs on the first day . i dunno . about bbf aftermarket parts anymore

The word was that they only had 62 blocks to sell. I'm thinking that was the first run probably only 100 blocks. The other 38 or less blocks were used for high end test builds that passed the grade. I'm sure that we can all appreciate that. The next lots are rolling thru in a few weeks? My name is on that when they get to Livonia.

All I Can Say Guys is WTF.



62 Blocks, Seriously. If They are Going to Continue The 385 Series for The Whole U.S.A. Canada Aussie Land NZ UK Ect. They Better Cast a Buch More Blocks and Quite Jacking Everyone The Fuck Around.

They Can Keep Their Bull Shit For $3,950 Too!!! Evil or Very Mad

I Really Really Really Hope A Serious Aftermarket Company Comes Along and Makes a Metric Shit Ton of Good 460 Cast Iron Blocks and Breaks It Off In Ford's Ass for This Shit. Piss On Them. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil

Great attitude…… that price is very fair given the current economy

^ You Damn Right It is Dfree. Buy  All of Them Big Spender. And I'll Skip it and Like I said If I Ever Get Serious Again I will Race Another Platform Engine. Not Paying $4K for an (Over Hyped OverPlayed 3-4Years) Fucking Block.
You Want To Keep Nut Hugging Go Right Ahead Big Boy. Evil or Very Mad

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Post  Mark O'Neal November 8th 2023, 6:57 pm

Maybe you can step up and manufacture a 2,000 dollar 2,000hp capable block.

Sounds like you have it figured out.

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Post  supervel45 November 8th 2023, 7:14 pm

^ No Mark. I Bet after The SEMA Fever and First Batch Sell Out Settles Down the Price Will Come Down Closer to 3-3.4K is All. It'll be Like the when the Miata and New Ford Bronco's Came Back to Earth Pricing and the Hot Wares Off.

Time Will Tell.

Also Some will Likely Hit the Used Market and That Will Help a Bunch Cool

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Post  Mark Miller November 9th 2023, 12:55 am

Dart BBC Iron blocks from Summit Racing are $3,400 plus change to over $3,800 so IMO $3,950.00 doesn't seem out of line for the 460 Block!!

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Post  supervel45 November 9th 2023, 2:16 am

^Yea Mark I Hear You. They Can Keep Those Too!!!

You Can Go in The 7 Second 1/4 Range All Day, Every Day, In A Light Car With A SBF and Or Windsor and A Turbo.

I Don't Plan on Going Any Faster and If I Wanted to Even Go In The Seven's and All That Entails, It Would Be in a Fly Weight Car.

For Going Fast With What I am Playing With Now a A460 Block at A 547 or 598 Would Sure Be Nice Though. Sad

Hopefully Some Hit The Used Market Soon, or At Least Some of The Older Racing Junk.

I Guess I Can Cement My D9 to The Water Pump Holes and Treat it Like a SBC If It Pops For $3950 Though.

IE Throw It in the Ditch and Get Another One Arrow Suspect

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Post  Dave De November 9th 2023, 6:52 pm

Comparing price to BBC is good up to the point that with BBC there is competition. Dart missed their moment in time to step up and provide an alternative. But then would the Dart block be as good? Would the price be better than FRP? I'm sure that this new pattern tooling is not made for large runs so there's no need to be in a hurry. The jobber foundry will not sacrifice other customers business if Ford tries to dominate. Guessing the lot size at 200, Ford probably has 2 lots going thru. The next rush wont be so bad, you'll have some time.
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Post  supervel45 November 9th 2023, 9:43 pm

LoL!

https://www.fordracingbyspeedshopdirect.com/product_p/m-6010-a460xbb.htm?1=1&CartID=0

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Post  Mark Miller November 10th 2023, 12:39 am

supervel45 wrote:^Yea Mark I Hear You. They Can Keep Those Too!!!

You Can Go in The 7 Second 1/4 Range All Day, Every Day, In A Light Car With A SBF and Or Windsor and A Turbo.

I Don't Plan on Going Any Faster and If I Wanted to Even Go In The Seven's and All That Entails, It Would Be in a Fly Weight Car.

For Going Fast With What I am Playing With Now a A460 Block at A 547 or 598 Would Sure Be Nice Though. Sad

Hopefully Some Hit The Used Market Soon, or At Least Some of The Older Racing Junk.

I Guess I Can Cement My D9 to The Water Pump Holes and Treat it Like a SBC If It Pops For $3950 Though.

IE Throw It in the Ditch and Get Another One Arrow Suspect

You aren't running 7's in the 1/4 mile with factory 302 or 351 Windsor Blocks and Dart 302 Blocks and Ford Racing Boss 302 Blocks are over $3,100 and you aren't going to come close to 598 cubic inches with them!! The only Factory Ford Blocks that would get you 7's in the 1/4 mile IMO are the 4.6,5.4 or Coyote blocks or the new 7.3 Godzilla!!Sorry buddy but there's isn't anything cheap these days!!


Last edited by Mark Miller on November 10th 2023, 12:48 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post  Mark Miller November 10th 2023, 12:43 am

supervel45 wrote:LoL!

https://www.fordracingbyspeedshopdirect.com/product_p/m-6010-a460xbb.htm?1=1&CartID=0

I'm confused the guys here said they're sold out but that link says they have 6 in stock although they're $300.00 more?

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